Is iniBuilds going all in on MSFS?

[JBDB-MD80 1,470]

2 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

This is true 🤣. They keep posting here in the MSFS forums 🤣.

Yet you up start a thread like this to lure some of their loyal/outspoken over here to post in the first place.

Edited June 6, 2022 by jbdbow1970

[pmb 5,137]

2 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

XP12 will be on my PC from day one also.  I don't mind maintaining two sims and will enjoy what each brings to table. 

I have been multi-sim so far, too: MSFS, P3D5, XP11, AeroflyFS2. Originally, I intended to continue this strategy just out of curiosity, too, but there are two points holding me back.

1) Addons.

I accumulated a huge pile of MSFS addons, mostly airports, during the last 2 years. Not so for the other three sims where I leveraged what I already had, if I fired them up at all. So there would be two strategies:

i) Buying the naked P3D6 (should it ever show up), XP12, AeroflyFS4. I doubt I will fly much in the bare-bone sims, even if they might have a couple of features  each being superior to MSFS 

ii) Buying future addons for all sims. This would require me being a millionaire which I, unfortunately, am not.

I didn't make up my mind yet but I am sure it's the addons (and the addon industry) deciding about the future of our sims rather than a slightly better autogen/cultivation/AI buildings or default plane flight model or such in one of them.

This argument may not apply to those flying the naked sims (yes, I know, there are some who enjoy this). But there is another one.

2) Administration.

Every one of these sims has its own keystrokes, settings, home-cockpit support addons and/or VR management to startup, forums to follow and, yes, issues which you have to cope with. I know my MSFS startup workflow from sleep, but not the other ones anymore. I already have difficulty to closely follow MSFS fora - do I want to digest four times that amount of information?

Kind regards, Michael

[rka 916]

20 minutes ago, mtaxp said:

Huh? So? They are x-plane developers, why should they do stuff to satisfy MSFS users or have a selling point towards them 🤔?

All of them chose to stick with x-plane and seem to be rather happy about it, what it is so hard to grasp? 

They will be happy as long as they earn their projected money. This is what makes the 650 (a bizjet!) cost 115(!) bucks in a vastly changed market. And I don't believe they are too happy about their sales still, but that is of course speculation.

And with bizjets being priced in the 100+ range now, what do you think the next FF Boeing will priced at (if it ever comes)? 200? Well thanks, but no thanks.

[flying_carpet 657]

2 hours ago, VFXSimmer said:

Fortunately Captain Sully didn’t train for birdstrikes in EITHER XPlane or MSFS and instead practiced his procedures in his company’s level-D sim and in actual checkrides.

This was an example that he could have done it (I mean the procedure) also in X-Plane.

 

2 hours ago, VFXSimmer said:

Both Xplane and MSFS are entertainment products and suspension of disbelief machines that simulate what it’s like to do the real thing.  They are NOT the real thing, however, no matter how many pretend failures are programmed into the core sim.

You can use both for entertainment and one of them professionally (with FAA certification). Even level-D sims are NOT the real thing. How do I know? I have asked a level-D sim instructor ...

 

1 hour ago, rka said:

They will be happy as long as they earn their projected money. This is what makes the 650 (a bizjet!) cost 115(!) bucks in a vastly changed market.

Some time back, some people said, Michael Schumacher earns waaay to much money. Niki Lauda said, if Ferrari pays this much, then obviously he is worth it. And Ferrari never complained about paying too much salary, they even were very glad to have him in her team.
Even if they don't earn this much money ... money is not everything. If they do it as a hobby and want to show what is possible (and can even earn some money with it) - why not? If it was only about the money, not one single freeware developer (some of them investing hundreds or even thousands of hours - simply because it's a hobby) would be around.
 

1 hour ago, rka said:

And I don't believe they are too happy about their sales still, but that is of course speculation.

I agree, it's speculation.

Edited June 6, 2022 by flying_carpet

[mtaxp 666]

1 hour ago, rka said:

They will be happy as long as they earn their projected money. This is what makes the 650 (a bizjet!) cost 115(!) bucks in a vastly changed market. And I don't believe they are too happy about their sales still, but that is of course speculation.

And with bizjets being priced in the 100+ range now, what do you think the next FF Boeing will priced at (if it ever comes)? 200? Well thanks, but no thanks.

A subjective matter.

This is not grocery store, this is a one time purchase for a product you are going to use for years, for me personally 200$ or 50$ in a scale of a product i'll use for a long time has no difference, as long as support and updates are good. 

You will have to ask hotstart about their sales, but watching them and others already announce x-plane 12 stuff for free, logic tells me they are rather happy and rather focus their work on where they are happy.

Edited June 6, 2022 by mtaxp

[rka 916]

2 minutes ago, mtaxp said:

A subjective matter.

This is not grocery store, this is a one time purchase for a product you are going to use for years, for me personally 200$ or 50$ in a scale of a product i'll use for a long time has no difference, as long as support and updates are pending. 

You will have to ask hotstart about their sales, but watching them and others already announce x-plane 12 stuff for free, logic tells me they are rather happy and rather focus their work on where they are happy.

Logic might also tell you that "114.95" does actually not equal "free" 😉  But money is no issue for you, I gather. That might perhaps be helpful going forward in the XP ecosystem.

[mtaxp 666]

3 minutes ago, rka said:

Logic might also tell you that "114.95" does actually not equal "free" 😉  But money is no issue for you, I gather. That might perhaps be helpful going forward in the XP ecosystem.

"Free" as in a free upgrade for x-plane 12 and free updates and support. Read again.

Regarding money, frankly, while it is very subjective, I find it hard to grasp that people who have a gaming PC and simulator hardware that can cost thousands of $ to be tight so that they can never buy an addon that costs like their ram memory and will probably serve them for much longer.

[Bobsk8 12,576]

6 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

Because XP so much fun to fly a lot of XP user find themselves on MSFS forum LOL

At least they can see photo's of realistic scenery...😉

[Bobsk8 12,576]

The bottom line, XP compared to MSFS, looks like word not allowed. People are not leaving MSFS for XP, it is the other way around. 

[Matchstick 1,886]

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

The bottom line, XP compared to MSFS, looks like word not allowed. People are not leaving MSFS for XP, it is the other way around. 

I've found myself using XP much more AFTER starting to get into MSFS.

It scratches a different itch and I appreciate being able to choose the appropriate one for the flying I want to do.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Matchstick

[MDFlier 2,031]

 

6 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

If Captain Sully had trained birdstrikes in MSFS he would have failed badly in reality. In X-Plane birdstrikes - and much more - are possible since (minimum) 15 years, what I've seen from my research.

I don't know about that. This professional pilot managed to pull it off in the Fenix in MSFS.

 

He was able to do that NOT because of ANY simulator training, it was because his years of experience allowed him to realize that the worst possible choice was the only choice and that he had the balls to go with that assessment and make the best of it. I suspect that many other pilots would have written that choice off.

Edited June 6, 2022 by MDFlier

[lzamm 143]

6 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

If Captain Sully.....

Thank you for your non-answer. I wouldn't put Captain Sullenburger among the "non-critical (gamer) users" I was referring to, but, hey, for some people I suppose anything goes to try and make a point.

[jarmstro 2,402]

2 hours ago, mtaxp said:

"

Regarding money, frankly, while it is very subjective, I find it hard to grasp that people who have a gaming PC and simulator hardware that can cost thousands of $ to be tight so that they can never buy an addon that costs like their ram memory and will probably serve them for much longer.

How much money people have is not subjective. It's a fact. Just because they may have a PC does not mean that everyone necessarily has the spare cash to buy addons Willy Nilly with no regard to value for money. You can't assume that people own a PC purely for flight simming. It might be a necessity even though they have a joystick as well. It's not being tight nor is it hard to grasp imo. 
 

And value for money is the key point, It would be simple enough for me to list in order the planes I have bought for X-Plane and MSFS which to me represent good value for money and those that do not. For instance I paid £90 for the Toliss A321 pre MSFS and recently I paid £50 for the Fenix A320. Can you guess which one I think offers the best value for money?

Edited June 6, 2022 by jarmstro

[lzamm 143]

2 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

You can use both for entertainment and one of them professionally (with FAA certification).

You're missing the point.  As I have said in a previous post, there's no doubt in my mind that X-Plane is a superior product to MSFS when it comes to aerodynamic fidelity (and on lots of other points, too).  But that won't matter at all when it comes to the masses - it may to me, to you, and the Sullys of this world, but it won't to the multitudes who bring in the $$$.  X-plane is an excellent, but niche product - to misquote Austin Meyer, it's not a flight simulator it's an engineering tool.   For the past few years it has enjoyed great and perhaps unwarranted popularity even among the non-critical users (believe me, I've answered enough questions on the Zibo forums to know) because with MS leaving flight sims there was no alternative.  Now there is, and it's more appealing to those users than ever.

[lwt1971 7,347]

6 hours ago, mtaxp said:

What capabilities MSFS flight model has that x-plane does not? Please do answer this, or otherwise it is another out of the blue statement.

Softbody physics, CFD simulation via Navier-Stokes equations solving (https://devsupport.flightsimulator.com/storage/attachments/2425-debug-aircraft-cfd.pdf), world/environment airflow/thermals/etc simulation (which currently is at a more advanced level) soon to be enhanced even more via using aforementioned CFD techniques expanding to a 20 mile radius around the aircraft, etc etc.
 

6 hours ago, mtaxp said:

*Just to add a bit more, the guy who manages inibuilds and do the marketing, is not even a developer himself. So take his marketing and promotional statements in a grain of salt.
...
And please dont requoot Ubaid Mussa from inibuilds, its pure marketing coming from a man who has 0 knowledge about developing and hires others to do the work for his company.

Lol, well gee I'm shocked that a XP fan would brush off iniBuilds' statement like that... we can all see for ourselves when the iniBuilds A310 drops for MSFS as to how capable its flight model is. For many of us, we don't need iniBuilds to tell us what we know already... those of us who've used all sims including XP, we can see for ourselves just how capable MSFS is in terms of flight models and aerodynamics by flying the likes of the Milviz C310, Fenix A320, PMDG 737, Kodiak, etc etc. Oh, and then there are the countless veteran IRL pilots (and simmers) of these aircrafts who've said the same thing, and some even going out of their way to say how flight dynamics/handling is similar if not better than XP. No amount of XP fans or Austin shouting "no no XP's flight model is the bestest!!" is going to change our minds 🙂

Bottom line, for many of us here on this forum, in our opinion, MSFS combined with the various stellar aircrafts add-ons provides the best *overall* experience when it comes to visuals, weather, aerodynamics, lighting, immersion and other aspects. From all what I've seen/read of XP12, it just fails to compel me.. ya it moves the needle from XP11 but that's not saying much. I realize that a lot of XP fans seem to be quite closely monitoring all MSFS forum threads for all the usual reasons (and that's adorable), but in order to avoid getting triggered or irked by what you read here it's maybe best not to ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Edited June 6, 2022 by lwt1971