PMDG not planning to update LNAV for P3D

[Juliett Alfa Romeo 530]

Aerosoft.

PMDG.

Who wants to be the next banned on my list?

Edited June 6, 2022 by Juliet Alpha

[Balint Szarka 123]

27 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Balint Szarka, make it clear your post is addressed to RR and no-one else. After all, it's him who makes these decisions so only he should be defending his decision. If others jump in defending the situation point out to them in polite but firm terms they are ineligible to answer what is a commercial decision.

Keep posts relevant to facts, not opinion. If there is a known LNAV problem and you can point to any post that states it will be fixed for P3D copy that into your post.

Those who bought the P3D version (I did twice) our money is just as good as those who have bought the MSFS version. I they have fixed it for that version then fixing it for P3D should not be that difficult.

Ultimately it's down to each customer and how strongly you feel about being abandoned by a company who has benefitted from customer's cash.

You see, I seem to be bad at being factual 😅 I admit! But I will try your suggestion on how to approach the topic in the future and address it to Robert directly.

Thank you for the suggestion.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Balint Szarka

[Nocturnal 117]

Nothing surprising really when this was discussed here long ago

 

[Nocturnal 117]

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Some of you might remember the outcry when Navigraph announced the end of the FMC update package a couple of years ago forcing subscribers onto the far more expensive Charts package. Such was the negative reaction they were forced to backtrack in a week or two.

Yes, but it won't happen this time since the number of people in the new platform who have this "religious" attachment to it is far more than P3D lot. What's ironical and in a way shocking and weird is that some of those users are asking P3D users to "forget" and move on since P3D is a "dead sim". 😆 https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/194517-04jun22-pmdg-737-600-dev-update-the-short-body-wonder-twin-of-full-sized-airliners/page2#post194958

[Ray Proudfoot 8,942]

3 minutes ago, Balint Szarka said:

You see, I seem to be bad at being factual 😅 I admit! But I will try your suggestion on how to approach the topic in the future and address it to Robert directly.

Thank you for the suggestion.

I cannot reiterate how important it is to keep emotion out of a complaint. Once you bring emotions into the argument you dilute your case. If you feel annoyed when starting to write walk away and only return when you feel calm and rational. 😉

[DD_Arthur 1,048]

55 minutes ago, VHOJT said:

No you're not - you paid for the P3D version (handsomely).

You have to pay more to get the MSFS version, so if you don't, that's less  money for PMDG and more for you.

In the case I’m quoting there is no need to give PMDG any more lolly.

23 minutes ago, Juliet Alpha said:

I feel angry because I trusted them. How can I continue to use their products?

Yes, "word not allowed" for them all.

That’s fair enough and completely your decision.

For what it’s worth; IF this is the end of what they’ve promised for P3D customers with products waiting to be updated then yes, I think you’re being treated shabbily. It was only a matter of weeks ago that RR wrote updates to the 777 ‘pit and VNAV improvements would eventually land in P3D.

Edit; very good advice from Ray here btw.

Edited June 6, 2022 by DD_Arthur

[Ray Proudfoot 8,942]

7 minutes ago, Nocturnal said:

Yes, but it won't happen this time since the number of people in the new platform who have this "religious" attachment to it is far more than P3D lot. What's ironical and in a way shocking and weird is that some of those users are asking P3D users to "forget" and move on since P3D is a "dead sim"

Irrelevant to the complaint. That’s just noise. You’ve bought a product that has a problem with LNAV operations. The fact they are developing for another sim is irrelevant. You’ve bought a product that should work correctly for all LNAV operations.

Point out to them the P3D version is still for sale. Selling a product with a known problem is just going to affect more customers.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,942]

A topic has been created over at PMDG.

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/195363-lnav-update-for-p3d-clarification#post195368

[Nocturnal 117]

8 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Irrelevant to the complaint. That’s just noise. You’ve bought a product that has a problem with LNAV operations. The fact they are developing for another sim is irrelevant. You’ve bought a product that should work correctly for all LNAV operations.

Point out to them the P3D version is still for sale. Selling a product with a known problem is just going to affect more customers.

Yes I agree that it might make them re-think their decision but in no way they are going to halt the progress of MSFS and pay attention to P3D till all their current aircrafts are in the new platform which can take a LONG time, so around 2024 or even 2025. By that time most people would either move on to the new platform or stick with the issues in P3D. All those issues exist in MSFS as well and I highly doubt if they will be fixed even in the new platform when those issues existed in the P3D since years and they still didn't fix it despite several complaints/posts about it.

I am pretty sure they made the plans of P3D exit since the launch of 777-200ER. Who would in their right mind price an expansion pack at $77.72. Of course it was clear that their strategy was to squeeze out as much money as they can from their last product in that platform. All they have been doing is lieing to P3D customers that they are working on the P3D updates.
 

Quote

THIS day, we still have an active development agenda in P3D and developers working within the platform daily.

Quote

The 777 is right back at the top of the update cycle for us again, and you can anticipate updates across the entire product range now, bringing all three products new LNAV, new Navdata processes, updated VCs for the 777 and the 747 and much much more.

These are some of RSR's quotes when the 200ER was launched. In short, trying to woo us to buy their most expensive expansion pack. All they have been doing is lieing to us and that will not change. Once all their products are out in MSFS (or maybe even earlier due to the backlash of the P3D users), they will publicly abandon P3D assuming that most of us have moved on to the new platform. I thought Aerosoft was bad but PMDG is the even more bad. At least Mathijs  from Aerosoft publicly mentioned that they won't be supporting any products from P3D instead of being "Michelangelo" (which RSR apparently calls himself).

[flycln 435]

Even if many people end up complaining on PMDG's forum, what'll happen is that they'll get more of Randazzo's vague promises but nothing will happen. After all, he's been promising the update for years now and there's even less willingness to actually get it done now.

I also bought the 737 and 777 in 2020 thinking they're not great but the LNAV and 777 VC update are on the way "soon", and now they're not coming at all. I do feel misled as a customer.

Randazzo can compare himself to Michelangelo in all his grandeur (comparing the NG3 to the Sistine Chapel, sheesh...), but I'm simply done doing any business with PMDG. Their products aren't even top of the line anymore anyway. They're several steps below FSLabs, Leonardo and Majestic in P3D and the 737-700 (that I got for "free" with my NGXu credit) flies like a little Cessna, it's bad. Much prefer the NGXu over the MSFS version in many aspects. The Fenix feels a heck of a lot better.

PMDG isn't even remotely close to the standard of quality you get from toto in the Hot Start Challenger for example, an addon that blew my mind after many years of flightsimming.

Edited June 6, 2022 by flycln

[Johnny19 344]

This is my post over at PMDG just in case it somehow vanishes

 

As a long standing customer, I cannot express my disappointment from the news published in the latest official post from PMDG. Yes, I might be using P3D now less and less, but I will really think things over before investing in your new software for MSFS, just because you let your old faithful customers in P3D down with promises that you never delivered for the same platform. So, no updated improved promised LNAV, no GFO, no updated VC for the 777 lineup, no rain marker. Who can guarantee that you won't do the same with MSFS when a new sim platform emerges one day?

[sdirand 246]

I switched to MSFS almost two years ago already so I'm not concerned anymore.

Anyway, maybe I'm wrong, but a new LNAV mode is probably only coding and both PMDG version (P3D / MSFS) LNVA coding might be very close, if not the same code.

So, if they update the msfs PMDG with a new LNAV mode, I don't really understand why they couldn't make the same update for P3D? 

A new VC for the 777 might ask a lot of work and I could understand hy they wouldn't want to allow those ressources for P3D. But it is more difficult to understand their thinking for the new LNAV. 

[GCBraun 2,392]

When did RR said that P3D versions would never be updated? It just makes sense for them commercially to focus all their development effort into ramping up their MSFS fleet.

Once that is done, they will probably evaluate how things are on P3D's side of things and decide if updating the LNAV is worth it or not. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by GCBraun

[sdirand 246]

27 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

A topic has been created over at PMDG.

https://forum.pmdg.com/forum/main-forum/general-discussion-news-and-announcements/195363-lnav-update-for-p3d-clarification#post195368

Wait a few hours for an "official" troll to start the fire in the thread, followed by an official warning that the thread could be locked. Then another "official" flamebait to add oil to the fire and then PMDG officialy closing the thread.

Happend all the time ;)

[Ray Proudfoot 8,942]

19 minutes ago, Nocturnal said:

Yes I agree that it might make them re-think their decision but in no way they are going to halt the progress of MSFS and pay attention to P3D till all their current aircrafts are in the new platform which can take a LONG time, so around 2024 or even 2025. By that time most people would either move on to the new platform or stick with the issues in P3D. All those issues exist in MSFS as well and I highly doubt if they will be fixed even in the new platform when those issues existed in the P3D since years and they still didn't fix it despite several complaints/posts about it.

Ah, I hadn’t appreciated the LNAV problem exists in MSFS. That being the case it perhaps suggests it’s not something that can be fixed. Did it exist in earlier versions of P3D / FSX?

I may well buy MSFS but will only use it for low-level sightseeing trips. It’s there where it excels over P3D. But I won’t buy any PMDG products since they don’t make any VFR aircraft.

I’m travelling to Ireland later today so my time here is limited for a week.