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birdguy

NASA to start UFO investigations...

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2 hours ago, dmwalker said:

I wonder how that might work. Would all the target stars be chosen in advance by the originators and programming included for all the offspring probes or would they somehow have the means to locate target stars autonomously?

That would depend on the intentions (and knowledge) of the civilization that sent it no? Do they already know what stars are out there, or do they want the probes to explore and find more stuff? Or both? 

 

Hypothetically speaking, any probe capable of operating in the manner described would have an onboard AI capable of navigating a pre-set route and/or if it sees something that could be considered interesting, sending a child-probe in that direction. 

Even the SR71 had a celestial-based navigation system onboard.... in the 1960s. With the capabilities we're talking about, a Navigational AI system would be a piece of cake. 

 

DB

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33 minutes ago, DaviiB said:

Even the SR71 had a celestial-based navigation system onboard.... in the 1960s. With the capabilities we're talking about, a Navigational AI system would be a piece of cake. 

Celestial navigation on Earth is a piece of cake because it is two-dimensional and involving journeys of a few hundreds or thousands of miles. Celestial navigation in space would be three-dimensional and involving journeys of tens or hundreds of light years. 

 


Dugald Walker or, possibly, Dave.

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, martin-w said:

But as I said, they wouldn't come here for resources anyway.

How many asteroids grow agricultural products?  Or graze beef for instance.

If slave labor is so expensive why is there so much forced and child labor going on in the world RIGHT NOW?  Why aren't they being replaced by automatons?

The labor robots replaced in automobile factories was expensive labor.  High wages and fringe benefits such as healthcare.  Has they been working for low wages and no benefits they would not have been replaced by expensive machines.

Slave labor replicates itself just like your imaginary Von Neuman robes do.

Noel

Edited by birdguy

The tires are worn.  The shocks are shot.  The steering is wobbly.  But the engine still runs fine.

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11 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

Celestial navigation on Earth is a piece of cake because it is two-dimensional and involving journeys of a few hundreds or thousands of miles. Celestial navigation in space would be three-dimensional and involving journeys of tens or hundreds of light years. 

 

Yes, but we're assuming a system that's smart enough to navigate on its own, identify and collect resources, then replicate itself and keep going. Very advanced. 

 

I think you'd pass through 3D celestial Nav on your way to developing an automated probe that's as capable as what's described. 

 

To go from 2D to 3D nav you'll need more reference points.... like ADSB with modern GPS units..... and if you leave your local neighbourhood and don't have known reference points, something like an INS (starting reference point + recorded speed & direction) could give you an idea of where you are using a bigger frame of reference (galactic for instance), while building a database of reference points as you go.

This is assuming there's not a much more accurate and sophisticated way to do it considering that we're operating with a hypothetical civilization that has figured out interstellar travel. 

 

DB

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13 hours ago, dmwalker said:

Your answer was too quick. I hadn't finished editing. I'm only about 10 net words per minute. The point is you are saying it mines asteroids or a moon, so it must bring some equipment to do that.

 

No, it just brings itself. IT is the equipment. IT mines and then with the materials it mines it builds additional probes.

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13 hours ago, DaviiB said:

Is it possible that we (human beings) have missed, or misunderstand something absolutely fundamental about the nature of reality? Science allows us to observe, form hypotheses, test hypotheses, then draw conclusions.....but.....we are very limited by available technology.

 

Yep, absolutely. Science is a work in progress. We don't have something we desperately need, namely, a quantum theory of gravity, we don't have the maths to describe the hot dense state at the big bang, or what happens at the centre of a black hole.

General Relativity and Quantum Theory are at odds with each other. 

We don't know what dark mater is.

We don't know what dark energy is. 

And dark energy and dark matter make up 95% of the universe. 

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12 hours ago, dmwalker said:

I wonder how that might work. Would all the target stars be chosen in advance by the originators and programming included for all the offspring probes or would they somehow have the means to locate target stars autonomously?

 

Either or both I would have thought. The premise is that a Von Neuman probes offspring's could spread throughout the galaxy in half a million years. So doubtful the creators would program in all star systems. The probe is autonomous, so choosing its own target stars would be logical. 

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9 hours ago, birdguy said:

How many asteroids grow agricultural products?  Or graze beef for instance.

Noel

 

You are thinking too contemporary. Aliens thousands of years in advance of us would have perfected something as basic as feeding themselves, all that would be required is an energy source. Its doubtful they would be mining OUR asteroid belts either. The universe is full of big rocks to mine. They would mine their own asteroid belts. 

 

Quote

If slave labor is so expensive why is there so much forced and child labor going on in the world RIGHT NOW?  Why aren't they being replaced by automatons?

 

You are taking it out of context. The slave labour you speak of is cheap. Aliens sending over countless lightyears considerable numbers of their space ships personal/soldiers in order to take over a planet, subjugate the inhabitants, enslave them, guard them, and force them to mine for the rest of their lives...  is not cheap and doesn't compare with kids these days making trainers for a pittance.. We aren't a super advanced alien race that has perfected the automated technology. And we aren't capable of making self-replicating machines. 

Again you are thinking in a contemporary fashion, this isn't about our relatively primitive technology. Again, we are talking about a species that is capable of traveling faster than light, incredible technology, hundreds or more, likely many thousands of years in advance of us. We are talking about A SINGLE PROBE that is self-replicating. The only expense incurred by that alien species is for one advanced probe. That probe would be equipped with "true AI" it would be fully autonomous. That one probe would use the materials it mined to make copies of itself. They launch the probe, sit back and do nothing. 

Why enslave humans when the asteroids contain far more minerals than they'd get here. And why come here when their own nearby asteroids contain the same. And why even bother to mine for mineral's when you can manipulate matter on the atomic scale and make whatever you want... all they would need is energy.

 

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, martin-w said:

We don't have something we desperately need, namely, a quantum theory of gravity,

Martin - you mentioned elsewhere that magnetic fields consist of photons (I believe I have that right) - and I'll have to take your word for it but since photons have inertial mass and therefore energy and since all matter must be to some degree bipolar which I assume sets up some magnetic field around all matter and therefore there is energy flow around all matter... is it possible that this energy flow (flow of photons in the magnetic field) is what causes gravity?

any thoughts?  Have I smoked too many bongs full of fruitloops? (its a George Carlin joke)

it is a curious thing - the things 'science' is willing to accept - the lengths it will go to to find something someone claims should exist -- all while dismissing completely what many say they have seen.  Like the black swan I guess.  dark side of the moon?

Edited by sightseer

|   Dave   |    I've been around for most of my life.

There's always a sunset happening somewhere in the world that somebody is enjoying.

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Posted (edited)

I'm not quite clear (it happens a lot these days) about the purpose of self-replicating probes. The original probe lands on a moon or asteroid, creates two replicas, which then go off to the next solar system, and then just sits there sending data back to the home planet. After half a million years, the galaxy is populated with millions of probes sitting on moons or asteroids and sending back data. What is the next step? What useful data could they send from a moon or asteroid? What do the originators do with all those data?

Edited by dmwalker

Dugald Walker or, possibly, Dave.

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On 6/19/2022 at 10:08 AM, Christopher Low said:

I am fascinated by the paranormal, and wish that I could have an experience of my own. However, if I did encounter a UFO or ghost, I would expect you to be sceptical of my claim unless I have convincing evidence to back it up.

I was that same way.  I grew up reading books about ghosts.  I watched "In Search Of..." and the show about Project Blue Book.  By the time I saw what I saw, all of that was a distant memory.  I no longer want to see any ghost or UFO.

I get that you're not calling me a liar.  No one truly understands until they go through something themselves.


|   Dave   |    I've been around for most of my life.

There's always a sunset happening somewhere in the world that somebody is enjoying.

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and I have a question pertaing to this thread:

It all starts with the assertion that beings who live on other planets in places so far away that we haven't detected them have chosen to come here to check in on us.  It seems quite logical that if there is one race of beings capable of this travel and exploration then there are probably at least one other race capable of the same or more, so why do they visit us and not them?  Who are we that they would visit us? (and yes I know we dont know who or what else they visit, it just seems odd that we would be anywhere on there list of travel destinations.


|   Dave   |    I've been around for most of my life.

There's always a sunset happening somewhere in the world that somebody is enjoying.

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Martin, you seem to know an awful lot about aliens, their phycology, their missions and their reasons for them, their benevolence toward us, their methods, their wants and need and what they don't need. 

Do you have information none of us are privy to or are you engaged in wishful thinking here and hoping they will be nice to us.

Noel 

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The tires are worn.  The shocks are shot.  The steering is wobbly.  But the engine still runs fine.

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7 hours ago, martin-w said:

all that would be required is an energy source

I know a guy who wishes all he to take for breakfast, lunch and dinner is a pill.  Is that what you suppose the aliens would have for an energy source?

I can't imagine not enjoying handling, cooking and eating food.  I love to eat.  I make elaborate breakfasts.  I have a different breakfast menu for each day of the week.  On Sundays, for instance, it's a slice of French Toast dripping with butter and maple syrup and a couple slices of bacon; a fruit bowl consisting of half an apple, a tangerine, 8 or 10 grapes, and some strawberries; a half a 12 ounce glass of vegetable juice and a cup of Lapsang Souchong tea. 

I would never volunteer to be an astronaut because I would miss eating good food.

But if aliens have what you call an 'energy source' for meals they are missing one of the joys of life.

Noel


The tires are worn.  The shocks are shot.  The steering is wobbly.  But the engine still runs fine.

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22 hours ago, DaviiB said:

It's a phone....."what's a phone?"
A communication device........"to communicate with who?"

Just give it to a kid.  The kid will figure out how to make it work without caring how it works. 🙂

Hook

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Larry Hookins

 

Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of Earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;

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