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Paul_Yorks

First look PMDG 737 update

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16 minutes ago, Farlis said:

It's full names, not just first names. Something quite a few people on their forums seem to miss. 😉

Never did understand that. What is it supposed to accomplish? Someone isn't going to make up a name to use?

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3 minutes ago, RichUK said:

Never did understand that. What is it supposed to accomplish? Someone isn't going to make up a name to use?

Anybody uses his real name? I would sign my account if I had one with Micky mouse or similar 


Lukas Dalton

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5 minutes ago, DaWu said:

Anybody uses his real name? I would sign my account if I had one with Micky mouse or similar 

Exactly my point..

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36 minutes ago, RichUK said:

Never did understand that. What is it supposed to accomplish? Someone isn't going to make up a name to use?

Piracy. Whenever someone comments in their forums looking for support or have questions about one of their products, they cross reference their customer database to see if they actually bought their planes. I think it's petty and certainly doesn't do anything to stop people from stealing their products. All it does is word not allowed off paying customers into putting their full names on the internet. 

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1 hour ago, Steve Dra said:

I wasn't going to post because I'm just so tried of his kind making statements based on whatever mood they happen to be in and the last thing PMDG said that triggered him.  But I felt a counter-point was needed

Indeed.. I believe much of the gnashing of teeth re: textures are about the cabin interior, wheel wells, parts of the cockpit.  Those texture improvements were all also already called out by PMDG as coming later, on the list of improvements coming in next 2+ months, along with LNAV 2.0, new EFB, etc. I suppose we'll see what fuss will be made about PMDG once these new features are all released.. I suspect then it'll be all about the words and phrases RSR uses and whatever great triggering those cause, and/or how their moderators are curt with some on their forums, and/or how they're too strict with freeware mods infringing on their IP, etc etc 🙂 Those who seem to have a history with PMDG seem rather personally invested in bashing PMDG, but hey if it helps them feel better ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bottom line is, for quality high fidelity Being experiences in MSFS, PMDG is the only game in town... and that ain't changing any time soon by the looks of it. All of this is noise which PMDG could care less about. PMDG is gonna keep doing PMDG things, raking in the revenue, and their detractors are gonna keep doing their thing I guess.

I suspect if one strives hard enough to not care about RSR or whatever bad customer relations practices PMDG does, then they too might enjoy their Boeings in MSFS (I suspect many of them already do, but feel an uncontrollable need to rail against PMDG when anything is brought up about them, especially if in a positive light).

 

Edited by lwt1971
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Len
1980s: Sublogic FS II on C64 ---> 1990s: Flight Unlimited I/II, MSFS 95/98 ---> 2000s/2010s: FS/X, P3D, XP ---> 2020+: MSFS
Current system: i9 13900K, RTX 4090, 64GB DDR5 4800 RAM, 4TB NVMe SSD

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9 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Indeed.. I believe much of the gnashing of teeth re: textures are about the cabin interior, wheel wells, parts of the cockpit.  Those texture improvements were all also already called out by PMDG as coming later, on the list of improvements coming in next 2+ months, along with LNAV 2.0, new EFB, etc. I suppose we'll see what fuss will be made about PMDG once these new features are all released.. I suspect then it'll be all about the words and phrases RSR uses and whatever great triggering those cause, and/or how their moderators are curt with some on their forums, and/or how they're too strict with freeware mods infringing on their IP, etc etc 🙂 Those who seem to have a history with PMDG seem rather personally invested in bashing PMDG, but hey if it helps them feel better ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Bottom line is, for quality high fidelity Being experiences in MSFS, PMDG is the only game in town... and that ain't changing any time soon by the looks of it. All of this is noise which PMDG could care less about. PMDG is gonna keep doing PMDG things, raking in the revenue, and their detractors are gonna keep doing their thing I guess.

I suspect if one strives hard enough to not care about RSR or whatever bad customer relations practices PMDG does, then they too might enjoy their Boeings in MSFS (I suspect many of them already do, but feel an uncontrollable need to rail against PMDG when anything is brought up about them, especially if in a positive light).

 

There are potential customers who don't care too much about the manufacturer of the aircraft. I had the choice between  PMDG and Fenix. There are several reasons why I choose the Fenix, but their way of handling customers was one of the reasons. And I think I'm not alone there. They really don't understand how much they are hurting themselves. Because many of those potential customers simply won't tell them about it. They just buy something else. And I was fully expecting to buy several PMDG planes on August 2020. But that has changed. I  work in customer support for a big site and speak with all kinds of sellers each day at work. I fully know that type. They are backwards and old. They don't adapt well to a changing market and complain a lot. They often blame their customers and seldom use positive wordings. 
 

PMDG has one and only that one advantage: High system depth. Well they used to. Now there is more and more competition emerging. How long will they be able to keep this attitude up? I have a feeling it will go downhill pretty fast as soon as more study level planes are released. 

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1 hour ago, Farlis said:

It's full names, not just first names. Something quite a few people on their forums seem to miss. 😉

haha, typo. fixed.

 

50 minutes ago, Bdub22 said:

Piracy. Whenever someone comments in their forums looking for support or have questions about one of their products, they cross reference their customer database to see if they actually bought their planes. I think it's petty and certainly doesn't do anything to stop people from stealing their products. All it does is word not allowed off paying customers into putting their full names on the internet. 

Yep, this. I pay for all of their products, but still use a fake name on that stupid forum if I need help. They don't care. They really don't. It's just some faux power play.

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AMD 7950X3D | 64 GB RAM | RTX 4090

B737 Pilot

 

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27 minutes ago, kakihara123 said:

PMDG has one and only that one advantage: High system depth. Well they used to. Now there is more and more competition emerging. How long will they be able to keep this attitude up? I have a feeling it will go downhill pretty fast as soon as more study level planes are released. 

That's all fair, but my point remains... for those wanting *Boeing* experiences at realistic levels in MSFS, it's PMDG or bust isn't it. I really don't see anyone else stepping up, probably because those competitors feel they can't effectively compete purely on a product level. Yes a bunch of users might be all upset with PMDG due to their PR and customer interaction skills (or lack thereof).. but is that really going to stop those who really want Boeings in MSFS from purchasing these birds from PMDG if they're the only option? I think not.  And let's be realistic here, outside of the echo chamber of reddit and these forums, there are a sh*t tonne of MSFS users both old and new who really don't have such deeply personal problems with PMDG, and are buying up their products instantly on release... that's going to continue with the 737-800, 777, 747, etc etc.

Edited by lwt1971
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Len
1980s: Sublogic FS II on C64 ---> 1990s: Flight Unlimited I/II, MSFS 95/98 ---> 2000s/2010s: FS/X, P3D, XP ---> 2020+: MSFS
Current system: i9 13900K, RTX 4090, 64GB DDR5 4800 RAM, 4TB NVMe SSD

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I like flying pmdg planes. Always have. I have no ax to grind. But I can’t recall the last time they have come out with a feature nobody had. But I can think of many features out in other planes that are missing from their planes. I personally would like to see more competition for Boeing planes. People thought nobody could compete with fslabs. Then the fenix came. Same in any other industry. Eventually disrupters show up. 

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1 hour ago, Bdub22 said:

Piracy. Whenever someone comments in their forums looking for support or have questions about one of their products, they cross reference their customer database to see if they actually bought their planes. I think it's petty and certainly doesn't do anything to stop people from stealing their products. All it does is word not allowed off paying customers into putting their full names on the internet. 

Yeah, that is pretty weak. I agree with you 100%

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On 6/20/2022 at 7:18 PM, Mike T said:

I don't post here at Avsim anymore but I've been here a looooong time. Long enough that I unofficially created the Avsim logo when Avsim adopted a graphic I had in one of my aircraft reviews - I don't remember how long ago. Back then the forums were much more light hearted and people like Ferd Berful would keep us laughing for days (see if you can find the infamous "my hovercraft is full of eels post").  With that said, I decided to post because of all this shade being cast on RJR.

It appears that RJR has become the new Peter Tishma - and quite frankly if you DON'T know who Peter Tishma is then you really haven't earned your stripes to truly understand who RJR is just yet either. But those of you who have been around know that RJR's reputation started a turn to the south when he announced that PMDG (an American company) would charge for its products in British Pounds in an attempt to extract more money from its customers. Thankfully that's not allowed. You want to talk about uproar?

Now some are angry because they've paid PMDG for essentially the same base code since FS 2004. Heck if ya know where to look you can see elements from that same model now in FS 2020. Some are angry because RJR's arrogance is often on full display on his forums, and yes, he is very much just a keyboard bully. Definitely not something I would recommend for a company's CEO, but PMDG is not my company to run.

Okay now that I've pointed out some of RJR faults, please feel free to raise your hand if YOU are without fault. God knows I've got tons of my own but I find that I've extracted much more enjoyment than anger because PMDG exists. Have I paid PMDG hundreds of dollars for the same frikking aircraft over, and over, and over? Yep. Do I enjoy the same frikking aicraft, over and over and over? Yep!

Am I surprised that PMDG has been reduced to releasing an unfinished beta aircraft? Absolutely - I never thought I'd see the day. I didn't think RJR's ego would allow that to ever happen, but I guess when you have a business to keep afloat then you do what you gotta do. The plan to address the XBox audience to maximize profits backfired. This is why FBW and Fenix have more functional and polished aircraft - to the exclusion of the XBOX profits - even though the PMDG 737 has been in development since before MSFS 2020 was released. But again, PMDG is a business ,and a business exists for ONE reason alone: to provide profits for its stake holders. So...

At the end of the day RJR knows what Asobo knows, and what Microsoft knows. Flight Simmers will pay for a product and accept it in any state of functionality to get it now. Asobo released an Alpha product and have spent 2 years getting it to a state that it should have been all along. Heck, FSX was never fixed and Microsoft abandoned it. THANK YOU LOCKHEED MARTIN for all of the work they've done to bring it from a sad, broken 32-bit program to a 64-bit program with literally hundreds of bugs fixed and new features introduced. I've enjoyed thousands of hours in Prepar3d thanks to them and I WON'T FORGET IT.

But I digress - thanks to PF3, AIG, FBW, Fenix and PMDG, I am a MSFS 2020 hard core user. Yes there is LOTS of work still to be done all around but I'm not going to hold PMDG or RJR to a higher standard than anyone else because they talk nice to me. Yeah, RJR is abrasive, and he's made some ridiculous decisions while running his company but so has the head of every company I know - large and small. And the irony is that almost everyone complaining about RJR probably tripped over their dog running to get their wallet to purchase the unfinished MSFS 737-700 on day one. I'm not sure where all this "hatred" for RJR is coming from but man, it's way overdone. And I think much of it is just people piling on with no idea why.

In the end, is the MSFS 737-700 "ground breaking"? Absolutely not. It has less functionality than the P3D version right now. Is it the best 737-700 for MSFS? Sure is! If nothing else PMDG is lucky in one respect. If FBW had released a 737 instead of a A320, they'd be in REAL trouble right now. 

Stay safe and healthy everyone!

Mike T.

 

Mike, what a great post!  
I too have paid PMDG hundreds if not thousands including in EURO’s around 2008 iirc-for the same planes in different sims-sometimes with a new feature or two but I drew the line at MSFS, as much as I’d like to have a Boeing or two alongside my Fenix-which was my first venture into MSFS and bugs with the sim and initial Fenix A320 aside is enjoyable-I cannot give Randangelo (my new name for him since he’s said he’s the “Michelangelo of flight sim” or something to that effect-but I don’t think Michelangelo would reuse the same ceiling over and over again without repainting it or at least sprucing it up a bit) 

 

As for the Papa Tango debacle-I vaguely remember a friend telling me to hurry and download AA liveries the second they’d come up due to some of that nonsense back in the day-even stuffing a few on my (dated at that time) Zip100 drive!   For the young’ns who don’t remember-I dug Tom Allensworth’s 15th anniversary blog-I was new to the internet back then and those were the days where I’d eagerly download a 747 or 767 mod from avsim just to have the brown cockpit.  I still maintain friendships with some of my sim buddies of that era tho I’m the only one still simming.  Thanks for the walk down memory lane with his name!  
 

 

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On 6/21/2022 at 6:08 AM, psolk said:

Funny how it seems to be mostly P3D users who haven't invested in the 737 in MSFS which BTW was free if you bought the NGXu

Only if you bought it by Dec 31 2019… Anyone who bought-even before MSFS came out in August 2020 was excluded 

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5 hours ago, blueshark747 said:

Avsim is pretty much the OG of in depth "flight sim politics"

Redditors nor the majority of official MSFS forum population are as knowledgeable nor seasoned when it comes to in depth first hand experience with 3rd party addon flight sim devs the past 15 years.

Some may find Avsimmer feedback pretty critical at times, but the majority of the population left here are quite experienced and are pretty accurate at gauging various aspects of this hobby.

One thing you can certainly count on here is for majority of folks to be a blunt and critical of 3rd party products ,developers and companies with no sugarcoating whatsoever.

 

great post-I got flamed on the Fenix thread for pointing out VNAV and other things that need some tweaking in future updates.  But at least Fenix doesn’t claim to be “ground up” when it’s the same old code as Mike T pointed out   


Translation:

-reddit makes memes

-Avsim discussion can get things fixed and features added 

Although I have indeed made one or two Randangelo memes.  (I may have even been the first one to call him Randangelo™ Patent Pending) 

 

apologies to the mods for the 3 posts-I tried to do multi quote from my phone and failed miserably.  

Edited by DJ Rosko
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I agree what you say that about Avsim discussion, however reddit is just one internet group starting to embrace msfs. not memes.

e.g vr is going social not isolated (although nothing wrong with that at all). iff this is wrong i would love to see some real evidence that shows otherwise 🙂

Oh well, the earlier poster is right it seems. The people here are really good for many reasons, yet many do not see what is moving fast with this game/simulator worldwide.  Anyways good nite all.

Edited by icewater5

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The PMDG defense team is hard at work, I see. 

Edited by Ricardo41

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