What's in a degree?

[Reader 2,009]

15 hours ago, charliearon said:

Reminds me of all of the senior class photos in my high school yearbook where they listed their college preferences and what they were going to study.  Liberal Arts and Political Science were the 2 most favored.  I'm sure most wound up sayin' "Ya want fries with that?" 😹

 

[DD_Arthur 1,048]

8 hours ago, Luis Hernandez said:

Mechanical Engineer, graduated in Colombia. I came to Argentina, and in 9 years no single one has ever asked me for my degree (or its recognition by Argentina).

Yeah, that sounds familiar.

 I graduated in 1988 and in the following thirty four years I’ve been asked to produce it once🙃.

[vadriver 247]

not many "aviation" tales above ..... 

[dmwalker 601]

7 hours ago, birdguy said:

there's an old Johnny Cash song that goes, 'Ya gotta know when to hold em, know when to fold em..."

Kenny Rogers

[psolk 3,037]

Degrees are relevant when you have no work experience.  As your hands on experience grows the need for a degree lessens unless you want to go to management in most cases.  (at least corporate).

At my company for example positions are done in grades from 1-16.  You can't go over 11 without a degree and you won't be over 14 without an MBA.

But to try and get a job with no experience and no degree going up against someone with no experience and a degree is not a good position to be in. 

[psolk 3,037]

17 hours ago, Reader said:

The wisest teacher I ever had said that the main purpose of education was to learn how to learn.
 

 

The wisest teacher I have ever was a driving coach who told me a coach or teachers greatest achievement should be the day the student becomes the teacher and no longer needs him...

[martin-w 3,234]

7 hours ago, birdguy said:

Likewise photography.   I never took a course or studied photography but I'm quite a good wildlife and bird photographer.

 

You are indeed Noel. And I do have qualifications in that field. 👍

[Luke 782]

4 hours ago, Chock said:

So yeah, having a degree might impress some people and might be a box tick for some jobs, but I know lots of people with academic qualifications that I wouldn't send up the road to buy me a Mars Bar without strongly suspecting they'd mess it up, so I prefer to judge people on what they are actually like and what they are demonstrably capable of.

But do you feel that way in the hospital? 😄

Cheers!

[Reader 2,009]

8 minutes ago, Luke said:

But do you feel that way in the hospital? 😄

If a degree is vital to obtaining and using theoretical knowledge, then its value is obvious.
Even then, experience is a magnificent teacher and more experience generally means more expertise,
unless the person is a complete buffoon.
Even in the medical profession, sometimes complete buffoons can somehow survive and there are plenty of cases
where someone who should have been exquisitely skilled turns out to be a charlatan.

Edited July 31, 2022 by Reader

[dmwalker 601]

13 minutes ago, Luke said:

But do you feel that way in the hospital?

 

[dmwalker 601]

5 hours ago, Swe_Richard said:

The inherent flaw of peer review research (all those seminal studies have gone through said process yet many of them fail to replicate half of the time or even way worse actually making the coin toss a better predictive tool).

Are you criticising the review process or just those who take advantage of it. The review process seems logical, with an initial review of theoretical feasibility followed by a practical evaluation of the reproducibility of the results. Is there a better way?

[Swe_Richard 1,172]

1 hour ago, Luke said:

But do you feel that way in the hospital? 😄

Cheers!

Lots of frauds in the medical industry that have degrees as well though. Paolo Macchiarini  being just one example. Lots of degrees behind Vioxx (not to mention the more recent stuff) that makes the hair on the back of the neck stand up. 

 

[Swe_Richard 1,172]

31 minutes ago, dmwalker said:

Is there a better way?

I wish I could tell you. If we could remove the rampant corruption and the politics from it that would sure improve the situation but it would probably be easier to find a real life unicorn. 

Oh, well. The barbecue beckons and I have to devour some juicy burgers.  

[dave2013 1,123]

11 hours ago, birdguy said:

Some people have an instinct for certain subjects and skills.  If you don't know the person you can't say he doesn't know what he's talking about just because you disagree with them when you are communicating on something like a forum.

Noel, this is different.  We're not talking about photography or similar types of pastimes that one can become proficient in on their own, and even then there are professional photographers who know a lot more than the hobbyist.  We're talking about complex scientific and highly technical subjects here.

The person I have challenged on a couple of topics is unwilling to admit that he may not be right or have all the answers.  He blindly believes in what he believes, and if you disagree with him then he resorts to shaming, gaslighting, and name-calling.  I see this over and over again with folks who have drank the kool-aid and are fervent, zealous believers in a certain modern cause and agenda.  All I have done is raise doubts and expressed skepticism, yet I get rebuked and disparaged for asking questions.  I have never professed to be an expert in the subject matter, yet someone who has no background, education, experience, or training in a science or technical field, who read some articles and watched some documentaries, tries to make me out to be a fool for daring to question the supposed "consensus". 

So when someone speaks with authority and as an expert on a particular subject, and claims to have such vast knowledge and understanding of that subject that they ridicule and show disdain to folks who disagree with them about it, then I expect them to at least have the scientific or technical qualifications to back up their claims and prove that they really understand what they're talking about.

I'll provide another example.  One of my supervisors at an observatory where I worked for a long time wanted desperately for people to think that he was qualified for his position, when in fact he was not and everyone knew it.  He had worked in administrative fields his entire career and had a 2-year degree in business management.  The reason he got the position had nothing to do with his qualifications and I'll leave it at that.  Anyway, he was frequently seen reading science magazines and Wired magazine and such and would start up conversations about some article he had read.  Initially, he'd speak on the subject as if he really understood it, but after a while it was clear his knowledge was just superficial and very limited.  We're talking about conversations with engineers, scientists, and other technical specialists about scientific and technical subjects.  Invariably the conversation would turn highly technical, and eventually he'd go quiet.  I almost felt sorry for him at times.  He kept doing it, though, to the point where people would make fun of him behind his back. 

It's fine to talk about subjects you don't know a lot about or fully understand, but don't claim to be an authority on something and criticize others who disagree with you unless you truly are an expert, and even then a true scientist would always admit that he/she doesn't have all the answers and could be wrong.

Dave

 

Edited July 31, 2022 by dave2013

[birdguy 3,943]

1 hour ago, Luke said:

But do you feel that way in the hospital?

If I was having surgery, no.  But our small dispensary at South Camp Fuji when I was in Marine Corps was operated by a Navy corpsman who handled everything from diagnosing and prescribing the penicillin for VD shots to setting fractures and stabilizing patients before sending them to the Hospital at North Camp Fuji. 

Corpsmen save many lives in combat and some even deliver babies in occupied towns and some have even been known to perform emergency appendectomies. 

But given the choice between a doctor who went to medical school and a corpsman to remove my gall bladder I'll choose the doctor.

Noel