Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
MNORM

Render Scaling

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Hmmm..interesting. Not that I really understand. I have a spare Samsung 4K TV but currently use an Iiyama monitor running at 2560 x 1440 @ 70hz.  Both are the same physical size. Which of them would give me the best quality and performance?

There are a lot of variables, you would just have to test it and find out.
Some TV's (and even some monitors) use a different type of pixel pattern which can affect the sharpness from micro-fringing (CA on pixels).

The biggest difference for MSFS gaming is contrast combined with backlight bleed or black uniformity, unless you don't do much night flying.
If the TV has higher contrast than your monitor, it will look better in some ways, unless it isn't sharp enough, but most Samsung TV's are pretty sharp.

I have found that the AMD Freesynch on some monitors doesn't work, or works just barely at all.
For instance, on the Dell s3221qs (4k monitor) I have to enable V-synch in RDR 2 or I still get tearing at certain angles.
So some monitors have buggy implementations of Freesynch.

I have tested Samsung, Dell, Gigabyte, Acer, Benq, and Asus monitors.

**Edit**

I recommend Gigabyte monitors overall,
the menus are fantastic and the software just works. Samsungs are also very good and hopefully Asus can match my Dell's sharpness (we will see), so I haven't gotten my hands on the Asus yet (just ordered). My issue is I could not find a Gigabyte monitor with an 1800r curve in 1440p (only wider formats).

The actual picture quality doesn't vary much between these monitors other than the Freesynch implementations and the black level uniformity issues (and I assume that is luck of the draw). The only thing where it really varies is slightly in sharpness, some have micro-fringing, but most don't. Samsung and Dell appear to make the sharpest monitors if that is what you are after, although the difference is nearly microscopic and not noticeable in gaming IMO, maybe slightly noticeable to the mind's eye so to speak.

However, I wanted an 1800r curved monitor and not a 1500r, so I am returning all the others and hoping the Asus VG32VQ will fulfill my needs. Right now I am still using the Dell 4k (which is 1800r and curved), but it's $100 more than the Asus 1440p, and I feel that having 4k resolution is an unneeded inconvenience, when I can have faster hZ and better motion. The motion is more noticeable than the resolution change, way more.

IMO 4k is not worth it in MSFS, have tested it side-by-side for hours, you're gaining basically nothing.
But the crowd here will continue to push 4k, I mean if you have the spare power, I guess, but it's a waste of electricity.

Edited by Alpine Scenery
  • Like 1

AMD 5800x | Nvidia 3080 (12gb) | 64gb ram

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

There are a lot of variables, you would just have to test it and find out.
Some TV's (and even some monitors) use a different type of pixel pattern which can affect the sharpness from micro-fringing (CA on pixels).

The biggest difference for gaming is contrast combined with backlight bleed or black uniformity, unless you don't do much night flying.
If the TV has higher contrast than your monitor, it will look better in some ways, unless it isn't sharp enough, but most Samsung TV's are pretty sharp.

Thanks. I'll certainly give the telly a try. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 hours ago, David Mills said:

Even if I literally press my nose against the TV, the tiniest of screen text is flawless, even on a 75-inch display, because 4K has essentially equaled the resolution of human vision at that display size and distance.

What you are implying is called pixel density. And honestly, no, if you think a 75" 4K TV provides a sharp image from just some inches away, your eyes should seriously be checked. With 4K on 75", you have a pixel density of only 60 PPI, which is ridicusly bad compared for example to a current smart phone display with way over 400 PPI. 

My 1440p Monitor for example with 27" has a PPI of roughly above 100 (108 PPI to be precise) and I certainly do not want to sit closer to this monitor than 40 cm, because I then clearly recognize the single pixels. 


Greetings, Chris

Intel i7-8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Sapphire RX 6900 XT SE, Windows 10 Home 64bit, Prepar3D 5.3, MSFS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

You can only see the roughness of pixels on certain color mixes though, it's not visible on all colors and not as visible in gaming as it is in web browsing. 27" is pretty small, I don't quite need 100 PPI to be happy, not sure where I am happy at, maybe 80 or so.

I tune it out, I don't care much about PPI to be honest at 1440p or higher, but I am used to projectors that used to have severe screen door effect in the old days, so in comparison my monitor is smooth as a glass floor.

Edited by Alpine Scenery

AMD 5800x | Nvidia 3080 (12gb) | 64gb ram

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Well, apparently I was wrong.

Look what happened to me:


So I was comparing two different monitors that were BOTH 4k,
when I thought I was comparing 1440p compared to 4k.


It wasn't until I went back and looked at the box and realized Amazon sent me the wrong monitor.
I hooked up a 1440p Asus and was like yuck the text looks bad.
It would be ok for purely gaming I suppose.

So my conclusion is, yah running 1440p is great --- but mainly ONLY on a 4k monitor.

1440p monitors are not worth the compromises.
 

Edited by Alpine Scenery
  • Like 1

AMD 5800x | Nvidia 3080 (12gb) | 64gb ram

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

So my conclusion is, yah running 1440p is great --- but mainly ONLY on a 4k monitor.

absolute nonsense conclusion,

the results of your so called ‘tests’ are very confusing,

the new QD-OLED Alienware does a mighty fine job of 3440x1440 - latest GSync Ultimate tech in a proper monitor form factor - & 1800R curve!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, craigeaglefire said:

the new QD-OLED Alienware does a mighty fine job of 3440x1440 - latest GSync Ultimate tech in a proper monitor form factor - & 1800R curve!

If you can get one that doesn’t need to be RMA’d.


i910900k, RTX 3090, 32GB DDR4 RAM, X34 3440x1440, Ruddy girt big mug of Yorkshire Tea

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, craigeaglefire said:

absolute nonsense conclusion,

the results of your so called ‘tests’ are very confusing,

the new QD-OLED Alienware does a mighty fine job of 3440x1440 - latest GSync Ultimate tech in a proper monitor form factor - & 1800R curve!

It would depend on your seating distance, I am just speaking in terms of WHAT I was testing.

Was talking about 16:9, and the results of my test are confusing because Amazon shipped me the wrong monitor and I can no longer edit the original posts. You can even see in my monitor comparison thread where I thought I was testing the 1440p Gigabyte  (that is what I ordered after all), when I was testing the 4k Gigabyte.

I didn't look at the model of the monitor when I set it up because I had 4 monitors here at the same time, I just assumed it was the CORRECT monitor.

Right now, I am down to 2 monitors (1500r  Gigabyte 4k 165hz vs. 1800r  Dell 4k 60hz ).

If anyone can live with the 1500r curve, the $580 Gigabyte m32uc has 4k and 144+hz, I mean that is unbeatable.
It also has the best menu and features of all I tested, and it's 90% to 95% as sharp as the Dell or Samsung.

I mean I got the m32uc for half price because of Amazon mistake, so I am going to give myself 2 weeks to adjust to the stronger 1500r curve and see if I can live with it. Otherwise, I return it back to Amazon and just buy whatever other high-end 4k (16:9) monitors with 1800r I can find.

The problem is they don't make hardly any 1800r 4k monitors with 120+ hz, the few 1800r available are mostly 60hz.
 

 

Edited by Alpine Scenery

AMD 5800x | Nvidia 3080 (12gb) | 64gb ram

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

spacer.png

On 8/2/2022 at 11:53 AM, JacquesBrel said:

If you have an NVidia card it is probably simpler to use DSR/DLDSR instead of a 100+ render scale. MSFS will simply just think it is running at a higher resolution, and the GPU will be doing the downscaling to the native monitor resolution. And in the case of DLDSR it will maybe do a little better job at eliminating jaggies/shimmer than the MSFS render scaling.

So let me get this straight. I have a 1440p monitor. So the thing to try is to go to NCP and set DSR to 2.25. And go to MSFS display options and choose the highest choice for Full Screen Resolution to 3840 by 2160. (before using DSR in NCP that high of an option was not there, but now it is. And then go to Render Scaling and set it to 100 which is 2556x 1392 and as close to 1440p as I can set it?

(I had never known anything about DSR until reading Jacq's message above in this thread). 

By the way it increased the quality of the picture on my 1440p monitor in MSFS just now as I tried this for the first time.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Fielder
  • Like 1

Ryzen5 5600X, RTX3070, 600 Watt Gold, Dell S3222DGM 32" curved 1440p VA, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB M.2. NVMe...Warthog HOTAS, CH quad, 3 Logitech panels (multi, switch, radio), StreamDeck, Desktop Aviator Trim Panel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Fielder said:

So let me get this straight. I have a 1440p monitor. So the thing to try is to go to NCP and set DSR to 2.25. And go to MSFS display options and choose the highest choice for Full Screen Resolution to 3840 by 2160. (before using DSR in NCP that high of an option was not there, but now it is. And then go to Render Scaling and set it to 100 which is 2556x 1392 and as close to 1440p as I can set it?

You need to change your Windows Display Settings to the DSR resolution you want to be running at. Render scaling in MSFS should be set to 100, but if it reads "2556x1392" or something close to your monitor's native resolution, then you are not running at the higher DSR resolution. When your Windows desktop display resolution is set correctly, your render scaling in MSFS should read "Rendering resolution 3840x2160" or thereabouts.

MSFS will not change your Windows Display Settings for you even if you choose "Display Mode: Fullscreen" in MSFS. As far as I can tell, that just means "Fullscreen Borderless Window" - it is not an exclusive fullscreen mode where the game can switch the Windows Display Settings to something other than your current Windows desktop display resolution like it normally does in other games running in fullscreen mode.

MSFS will just run at whatever display resolution that Windows is currently running at, no matter what the MSFS window size is set to. So you need to do the right-click-on-desktop/choose "Display settings" thing, and choose the DSR resolution yourself, and then set MSFS window size to match the display resolution.

If you want an easier way around the bother of switching your Windows display resolution between DSR and normal resolution, there are utilities like DisplayFusion that lets you switch between pre-defined display configurations. I just use a couple of .bat files and MultiMonitor Tool to switch between the display configurations I use.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ok, thanks, now I understand. I have 1440p monitor. Have DSR set to 2.25 in Nvidia Control Panel. And changed Windows Settings Display to 3840 x 2160. Now in MSFS Render Scaling 100 displays 4K on my 1440p monitor. And Render Scaling 65 displays 1440p. The fps changes based on which of the two. fps changes in the menus and also changes in the flights.

 

So when someone tells you to set your msfs display higher than the monitor native resolution and then reduce Render Scaling or perhaps leave Render Scaling at 100, and you think that is not possible in MSFS, what Jacques showed is that is possible.

 

spacer.png

spacer.png

 

  • Like 1

Ryzen5 5600X, RTX3070, 600 Watt Gold, Dell S3222DGM 32" curved 1440p VA, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB M.2. NVMe...Warthog HOTAS, CH quad, 3 Logitech panels (multi, switch, radio), StreamDeck, Desktop Aviator Trim Panel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

In other words on my 1440p monitor by setting DSR to 2.25 I can set Windows display settings to 4K. It's still displayed at 1440p but that's not the point. All images are rendered higher and then displayed at 1440p.

 

7ma7tnX.png

 

spacer.png

Edited by Fielder
  • Like 1

Ryzen5 5600X, RTX3070, 600 Watt Gold, Dell S3222DGM 32" curved 1440p VA, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB M.2. NVMe...Warthog HOTAS, CH quad, 3 Logitech panels (multi, switch, radio), StreamDeck, Desktop Aviator Trim Panel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/4/2022 at 6:48 PM, scotchegg said:

If you can get one that doesn’t need to be RMA’d.

like so many other happy users, got a truly amazing next-gen QD-OLED & ready for the Strix 3090 OC to drive it!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

2 hours ago, SuperKaro2014 said:

@Fielder what is the verdict in terms of image quality?

Using DSR to enable setting windows display to a higher resolution than my monitor's native resolution does improve the image quality in MSFS. But not by a great amount. It's like when you crank the resolution slider up in MSFS on a more conventional configuration. And it costs some fps.

It is something anyone can try by just changing one setting in Nvidia Control Panel (DSR) and then right clicking on 'Display Settings' on the desktop and clicking on a higher number in the 'Display Resolution' box. 

You can reclick that box anytime and go back to the monitor's native resolution. Doing that would restore a web browser window or a text file to a larger size for instance.

  • Like 1

Ryzen5 5600X, RTX3070, 600 Watt Gold, Dell S3222DGM 32" curved 1440p VA, 16 GB RAM, 2 TB M.2. NVMe...Warthog HOTAS, CH quad, 3 Logitech panels (multi, switch, radio), StreamDeck, Desktop Aviator Trim Panel.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
×
×
  • Create New...