Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
SierraDelta

GSX PRO is out

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, rjack1282 said:

Huh? Regardless of the bugs and crashes, the procedural problems are 100% developer created.  FSDT apparently either had no one with actual airline experience giving feedback or ignored it.

Quote

 

I've cued this video to the place where passengers' feet can be seen penetrating the cockpit instruments. 🙂

Edited by David Mills

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

First, I wanted to say I'm sorry for not being very present here, but I obviously had to deal with support issues on our forum first.

Also, we are fully aware there are lots of users awaiting for their registration to be approved, but we wanted to be sure we could give support to existing users first. Getting approved will only give permission to POST messages, it doesn't in any way restrict the ability to READ about problems and suggested solutions. Since it's extremely likely those new users would start by posting something that has been *surely* been discussed, it's very likely that accepting a huge number of new users likely posting about the same things, will make the forum unusable for everybody. And, the forum has always been ONE way to get support from us. Those who contacted the support email HAVE been replied to, although we are still behind replying to all emails, they will all replied to.

Yes, we had lots of server issues, which are more snarky than just the "server crashed" we all have seen in ALL major MSFS releases. Our servers cannot crash, because they are not our servers, almost nobody can "crash" Cloudflare, but their node can be slow receiving the updates, and this results in bugs or errors that shouldn't appear, because the file in the user's hands is not the one we posted online. And that's why none of the testers or the reviews found ANY of the issues reported in the release. They were far too few to cause *any* server overload or delay. It's when you go live, that troubles starts, but they will eventually sort out.

I don't know what's worse: having frustrated users because they cannot even ACCESS the download, because the server *crashed* or having users frustrated because they could download, but it didn't work ?

From a marketing point of view, it might have been best to just let server crash, with NOBODY able to download ANYTHING, because it would amplify the myth "they are having a huge success".

But for a fairness point of view, which is my own (since I don't know anything about marketing. or I know something, and I hate it...), it would be best giving everybody a chance to always complete his download, hoping the server replication won't affect too many users and would sort out as soon as possible. I think we underestimated BOTH the potential interest in GSX, but also the effect on distributing a product made of more then 25000 files, over 260 servers, which are probably *defending* themselves against that traffic, and might purposely slow down replication. 

That doesn't mean we don't also have "real" bugs, because we surely do, every new software has bugs, even software made by companies who have a budget for peanuts higher than our yearly income. The server issues will sort out themselves in a few days, so our job is to take care of the real bugs.

We are starting to add Sticky threads about confirmed solutions, which will hopefully reduce the need for people to continue posting about the same problem in new and old and sometimes unrelated threads. Most of these solutions are temporary, because now that we *know* about them, we know how to prevent our code to fall into that trap.

But that's ONE thing I came here to clarify about, and it's the CTD's, supposedly "caused" by GSX. CTDs are serious and should be the top priority, and we haven't dismissed the chance it *might* have something to do with GSX, because we know Simconnect is not 100% complete in MSFS, so who knows what really happens when we call into it, and we call into it a lot.

Also, the timing looked very suspicious, and this made me worry a bit but, a user on our forum suggested to check this long thread on in the official Microsoft Flight Simulator forum, which discuss a very unusual increase of CTDs that started this week and, with the evidence which is being gathered from more and more user posting their experience, that GSX doesn't have anything to do with those recent CTDs. We just got VERY UNLUCKY to release basically the day after those issues started, so I fully understand that, without any better evidence, it's normal for everybody to assume it was GSX, "because that's when the crashes started". I'm not blaming users for assuming that, but I ask to at least approach this in a scientific way.

To ease the reading, since the thread on Microsoft is long and it's likely to get longer, I've collected all post that in some way discuss GSX, together with the ones that never had it, in this post here:

http://www.fsdreamteam.com/forum/index.php/topic,26580.msg174887.html#msg174887

It's clear we have strong evidence, coming from many users, the unusual increase in CTDs:

- already started before GSX came out

- happens to many users that never had GSX before or had it, and uninstall it.

- happens to many users that don't have any add-ons, because they reinstalled from scratch.

- happens to many users that have all sorts of add-ons, including GSX, but also all sort of add-on, with no GSX.

 

If the CTD's were REALLY *caused* by GSX, we would see:

- ALL users starting to have CTDs *after* the installed GSX.

- ALL users fixing their CTDs by uninstalling GSX

But that's not the situation we are in.

Edited by virtuali
  • Like 10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's a summary of virtuali's statement:

* We view new users on our website as a nuisance.

* Our download servers did not and cannot crash.

* None of our beta testers found any problems at all with GSX.

* We wish the download servers had crashed completely so that people would think we were overwhelmed with sales.

* Our servers might be defending themselves against GSX and deliberately slowing down traffic.

* GSX isn't really causing CTDs. It's probably Microsoft/Asobo's fault.

* If your crashes started when you installed GSX, and your crashes stopped when you uninstalled GSX, it's an unlucky coincidence.

* Unless all users experience identical CTDs, none of them could be caused by GSX.

* Don't blame us. The servers we use aren't really our servers.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
19 minutes ago, David Mills said:

Here's a summary of virtuali's statement:

* We view new users on our website as a nuisance.

* Our download servers did not and cannot crash.

* None of our beta testers found any problems at all with GSX.

* We wish the download servers had crashed completely so that people would think we were overwhelmed with sales.

* Our servers might be defending themselves against GSX and deliberately slowing down traffic.

* GSX isn't really causing CTDs. It's probably Microsoft/Asobo's fault.

* If your crashes started when you installed GSX, and your crashes stopped when you uninstalled GSX, it's an unlucky coincidence.

* Unless all users experience identical CTDs, none of them could be caused by GSX.

* Don't blame us. The servers we use aren't really our servers.

 

Come on now.  Can you be a little nice?  At least he is communicating with affected users here.  Hey, I don't like what is happening with the addon but that's life and time to move on.  What is the saying?....if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

Edited by F1Fan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, F1Fan said:

if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

That seems to have been the attitude among his beta testers. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
On 8/20/2022 at 3:53 AM, rjack1282 said:

If you push back nose left you should see the pin on the right. This is basic stuff.  Who are the testers for this product? 

That's not necessarily true, so it could actually be that beta testers experienced the correct wave off if they used certain airports with particular road layouts.

Typically you give the crew the wave off with the bypass pin on the side which is most convenient for the tug and headset person to vacate to a road or stand from the taxiway, and that could be either side, depending on the pushback procedure for the particular stand. Not all pushbacks are a simple turn to the left or right. For example, here's one we do off Stand 16 at EGCC, the standard push for jets off 16 involves doing a 180 via a three-point turn for jets as you see me doing here, but it's a straight pushback with no turns at all to more or less the exact same TRP which is the standard push for props off that exact same stand, so depending on the engine type, the aeroplane could end up facing either way after a push, which means the wave off could be given from either side for aeroplanes off stand 16.

This variety in pushback directions is true at lots of airports, often depending on variables such as the amount of traffic taxying about, the runways in use, weather conditions and so on. So it is conceivable that beta testers did not see anything untoward during their testing of this function:

.

Edited by Chock

Alan Bradbury

Check out my youtube flight sim videos: Here

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
24 minutes ago, David Mills said:

That seems to have been the attitude among his beta testers. 

I understand.  I know the release of the addon was a little rough but he is trying to correct the issues.  I'm sure it is not an easy task but I'm sure it will fine once the dust settles.  Give it time and the addon will be as good as it was for FSX/P3D.  We all made our point and now is time to move on and let him do his thing. 

Edited by F1Fan
  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, David Mills said:

That seems to have been the attitude among his beta testers. 

Or they just didn't encounter these issues. It's not impossible.

  

59 minutes ago, David Mills said:

* GSX isn't really causing CTDs. It's probably Microsoft/Asobo's fault.

* If your crashes started when you installed GSX, and your crashes stopped when you uninstalled GSX, it's an unlucky coincidence.

* Unless all users experience identical CTDs, none of them could be caused by GSX.

That's not what he said at all. Work on your reading comprehension. 

There have been a lot of people crashing over the last few days (with the ntdll.dll fault) that never owned or installed GSX, that is what he's saying. Not all the crashes are connected to GSX, it's just a coincidence that they started around the same time GSX released.

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/constant-ctd-every-flight-now/537543

Now the crashes that stop after GSX is uninstalled sure, could be the fault of GSX.

Edited by Tuskin38
  • Like 4
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
55 minutes ago, David Mills said:

* We view new users on our website as a nuisance.

We are following new users individually, by email.

 

Quote

* Our download servers did not and cannot crash.

Of course, since nobody ever connected to them.

 

Quote

* None of our beta testers found any problems at all with GSX.

Since many of them are known here as well, don't you think that, I wouldn't risk saying something like that, if I wasn't entirely sure of it ?

 

Quote

* We wish the download servers had crashed completely so that people would think we were overwhelmed with sales.

You got it backwards. It's precisely because we DO NOT whish that, that we used a caching system. 

 

Quote

* GSX isn't really causing CTDs. It's probably Microsoft/Asobo's fault.

That's what the evidence that is coming from the thread on MS forum is telling. Are you trying to say those users saying they started having CTD and never had GSX installed, or in many cases not even a single add-on installer, are making that up ? These are OTHER USERS REPORT, not "my view". There's another thread HERE on Avsim about CTDs, with multiple confirmation CTDs happens regardless of GSX, so that's "my view" too ?

 

Quote

* If your crashes started when you installed GSX, and your crashes stopped when you uninstalled GSX, it's an unlucky coincidence.

Of course they are, because it GSX was the real cause, this outcome should have been the SAME for EVERYBODY.  Ever heard of the phrase "correlation is NOT causation" ?

 

Quote

* Unless all users experience identical CTDs, none of them could be caused by GSX.

Of course. If GSX caused crashes, it should cause crashes to everybody, this is a simple logic, but not just that, the most important data we get from the FACTUAL EVIDENCE ( because we must trust users right ? ), is that lots of CTD DID start this week. And most of these users never had GSX in the first place.  If you put the two together, simple logic says it's clear GSX is not the case. Again, correlation is not causation.

 

Quote

* Don't blame us. The servers we use aren't really our servers.

At leas you got one right. Yes, the servers people connects to are not our servers. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, David Mills said:

Here's a summary of virtuali's statement:

* We view new users on our website as a nuisance.

* Our download servers did not and cannot crash.

* None of our beta testers found any problems at all with GSX.

* We wish the download servers had crashed completely so that people would think we were overwhelmed with sales.

* Our servers might be defending themselves against GSX and deliberately slowing down traffic.

* GSX isn't really causing CTDs. It's probably Microsoft/Asobo's fault.

* If your crashes started when you installed GSX, and your crashes stopped when you uninstalled GSX, it's an unlucky coincidence.

* Unless all users experience identical CTDs, none of them could be caused by GSX.

* Don't blame us. The servers we use aren't really our servers.

 

Trying  to stir  the pot  or  you got  some  agenda  against  gsx

  • Like 3

I7-800k,Corsair h1101 cooler ,Asus Strix Gaming Intel Z370 S11 motherboard, Corsair 32gb ramDD4,    2  ssd 500gb 970 drive, gtx 1080ti Card,  RM850 power supply

 

Peter kelberg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, David Mills said:

Here's a summary of virtuali's statement:

It's not often that I find myself defending Umberto... but his post is short and concise enough... I don't think it really requires a snide and disingenuous "summary".  This is not the first MSFS release that hasn't gone smoothly; nor will it be the last.  Say what you will about FSDT; but they do have a pretty good track record at fixing issues... hopefully most of the bugs will get sorted in a few days.

  • Like 8
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

There is indeed a lot going on about ntdll.dll crashes on the official forum. Affecting both SU9 and SU10 beta users of the sim. Pristine or with add-ons doesn't matter. Someone mentioned it could be caused by corrupted data coming from the servers. I have done 2 flights and both ended in ntdll ctd. With GSX, but I am with Umberto that it could very well be an unfortunate coincidence that the release and ctd's appeared at the same time, not because of GSX.

Edited by Gerwil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, virtuali said:

Of course they are, because it GSX was the real cause, this outcome should have been the SAME for EVERYBODY.  Ever heard of the phrase "correlation is NOT causation" ?

 

OK, fair enough, coincidences do happen.  I'll give it another try. I'm running rock solid without it so lets see...

EDIT So far so good. Looks like I may be eating hat on toast for breakfast......

Spoke too soon. CTD 2 hours into a flight. Maybe nothing to do with GSX though, who knows? I've deleted it again. I can live without it.

Edited by jarmstro

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, virtuali said:

Of course. If GSX caused crashes, it should cause crashes to everybody, this is a simple logic..

Is it? How many years are you in business now? Unbelievable to still hear such bold statements from experienced devs... 


Greetings, Chris

Intel i7-8700K@5.0GHz, 2x16GB 3200MHz CL14 RAM, Sapphire RX 6900 XT SE, Windows 10 Home 64bit, Prepar3D 5.3, MSFS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
×
×
  • Create New...