GSX PRO is out

[Gilandred]

While I don’t think it’s an intentional misrepresentation, the website does say “works with every aircraft,” and unless I’m missing something the cargo loaders and passenger entires do not currently work correctly on the PMDG DC6, despite specifically mentioning it works with PMDG aircraft.  I’ve tried to customize the entry points for both cargo and passengers, but the changes do not save from session to session.  Hopefully a default profile is coming soon.  Otherwise I find this to be a fantastic level of immersion.

[virtuali]

1 hour ago, Gilandred said:

While I don’t think it’s an intentional misrepresentation, the website does say “works with every aircraft,” and unless I’m missing something the cargo loaders and passenger entires do not currently work correctly on the PMDG DC6, despite specifically mentioning it works with PMDG aircraf

That is in fact a bug, the airplane editor works, but it fails to reload a user config, it will surely fixed!

[FlyingGoose]

5 hours ago, virtuali said:

And who's decides a product has been "Misreprented"

The credit card company does, as I'm sure you know.

If I file for a chargeback, you can dispute it, and the credit card company will decide based on their own processes. They may ask me for evidence that I tried to work with support, or they may not and simply issue the chargeback (and this is what happens in the vast majority of low value transactions, unless your account is somehow flagged as a serial "refunder" in the credit card company's systems).

The rest of your post is essentially your defense to the credit card company, I have nothing to do with all of that. 

If you're right, you should win the vast majority of chargeback disputes, and good for you for standing up for yourself and fighting users who don't understand how to use your program and should never have bought it in the first place. The customer then can attempt to sue Visa, but good luck with that!

If the credit card company doesn't see things through your unique perspective, and they decide to side with their customer - then you can of course continue to fight with Visa or Mastercard or Amex and take them to court/arbitration. That's between you, your lawyers, and Visa/MC. 

I commented because the other user threw out statements like "the law says you have to do blah blah", which is simply false, and not how chargebacks work (at least in North America, I don't know about Europe).

For those who want to do a chargeback, you shouldn't be intimidated by such statements. Call your credit card company and talk to them, they are the best source of information on this, not random forum users- and that includes me! I am (as it happens) a lawyer, but I'm not YOUR lawyer, and I don't specialize in online fraud. 

 

[Nyxx]

Breathtaking..........🤬

[Fiorentoni]

16 hours ago, FlyingGoose said:

I’m sorry, what “law” are you referring to here? Can you post a reference to this law that requires the developer help?

Is this a Swiss or EU law? That won’t apply to a US credit card company - US law will apply.

In the USA, at least, chargeback is heavily weighted in favour of the customer. There’s no law that says “we won’t process a chargeback till the developer has helped”. Heck , American Express is well known as a great consumer card for this very reason - they practically always side with the consumer and do not hassle the card holder. 
 

Misrepresentation is valid grounds for chargeback, and given the huge amount of evidence that this program doesn’t quite do what it’s supposed to do, I very much doubt that a credit card company is going to refuse a chargeback. And if you think Visa is going to open an investigation over $30… well I don’t know what to tell you. 

“Under Federal laws your customers have the right to dispute charges based on billing errors or under "claims and defenses" provisions. Billing errors include unauthorized charges, undelivered goods or services, misrepresentation of goods or services, the wrong quantity of goods or failure to provide goods or services within the expected timeframe.”

here’s the source  https://legalbeagle.com/13319095-chargeback-laws.html

finally, do you work for FSDT or are you somehow related (professionally or personally) to the developers? You’ve been vigorously defending GSX and FSDT from launch day so it’s just odd that a regular user would be so deeply invested in defending a random flight sim program.

if you are just a regular user, I apologize in advance; but if you do have some affiliation to FSDT, it would be nice to know.

 

I'm a regular user, nothing else.
I've been "defending" GSX because I really like it and I want people to have a chance to appreciate it. Therefore it's not random to me, it was my favorite addon on P3D and I'd like it to grow and become even better in the next 10 years on MSFS. So I'm trying to help people who have problems with it, because I understand it's much more complex than the average MSFS addon and therefore more things can go wrong (and do).

I've also expressed some critical thoughts about the release state and even more about Umberto's attitude with customers, though the latter I did more pronounced on the FSDT forum for obvious reasons.

[jarmstro]

12 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

because I understand it's much more complex than the average MSFS addon and therefore more things can go wrong (and do).

And there lies my issue. The marketing blurb did not make it crystal clear that it is a complex addon requiring user knowledge and input. It gave the impression it was click-and-enjoy. I came from X-Plane not 3PD so had no prior knowledge of this product.

Edited September 1, 2022 by jarmstro

[rjack1282]

9 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Therefore it's not random to me, it was my favorite addon on P3D and I'd like it to grow and become even better in the next 10 years on MSFS.

I would love to see this as well but it should have spent some more time in the oven before release imo. 
 

Those of that been around know it’s a good company that produces good products but unfortunately with the release of MSFS and the influx of new users to flight sim with no idea who FSDT is or it’s developers and this probably being their first FSDT/GSX product are not getting a good first impression and that’s shame. 
 

[Fiorentoni]

16 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

And there lies my issue. The marketing blurb did not make it crystal clear that it is a complex addon requiring user knowledge and input. It gave the impression it was click-and-enjoy. I came from X-Plane not 3PD so had no prior knowledge of this product.

Yes I agree, you have a point. The pre-release-phase was really short, this might have contributed. Still I hope you will eventually come to enjoy it once you grow into it - and I hope GSX also grows to become more intuitive for the MSFS crowd.

[jarmstro]

6 minutes ago, Fiorentoni said:

Yes I agree, you have a point. The pre-release-phase was really short, this might have contributed. Still I hope you will eventually come to enjoy it once you grow into it - and I hope GSX also grows to become more intuitive for the MSFS crowd.

I thinks that there is a lot more FSDT could do to make GSX user friendly. Automatic instal of profiles for third party addons present in one's community folder can't be rocket science can it?

Edited September 1, 2022 by jarmstro

[virtuali]

1 hour ago, FlyingGoose said:

The credit card company does, as I'm sure you know.

Of *course* you can file a Chargeback, and nobody will "challenge" it, because the cost to do do that would far exceed the value of the transaction.

This doesn't have anything to do with citing "the law", that clearly said you only have a right to a refund, for copyrighted products (which have more exemptions to refund rights than normal products) provided is "misrepresented" or "unfit for purpose".

What the low among of money which makes every discussion about "challenging" a chargeback completely moot, has anything to do with saying the product has "misrepresented", when clearly isn't ?

If GSX costed 10.000$ a copy, you can be sure we'd challenged each and every refund requests based on those motivations and yes, we'll surely win the vast majority of those, because refund request coming from users finding *actual* bugs, not only are not coming in any meaningful numbers, but they are probably already been fixed.

Edited September 1, 2022 by virtuali

[virtuali]

16 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

I thinks that there is a lot more FSDT could do to make GSX user friendly. Automatic instal of profiles for third party addons present in one's community folder can't be rocket science can it?

The instructions that come with many profile creators readme files are making it sound way more complex than really is, because of having missed this paragraph in the manual, Page 46:

Quote

The name of the .BGL used to customize the scenery is listed in the [GENERAL] section of the GSX .INI profile. It will include the complete path valid for your system but, don’t worry, there’s no need to edit it out before sharing your work, since GSX will only use the .BGL filename, and will ignore the full path altogether, it has been designed like this exactly to facilitate sharing of GSX .INI profiles without worrying about different paths. As long the currently active .BGL matches the name referenced in the .INI file, the .INI will be loaded by GSX, no matter the path.

Once this is understood, it's just drag&drop in the %APPDATA%\Virtuali\GSX\MSFS folder, no edits required.

Edited September 1, 2022 by virtuali

[jarmstro]

1 minute ago, virtuali said:

The instructions of many profile creators are making it sound way more complex than already is, because of having missed this paragraph in the manual, Page 46:

Yes but what I would like, and I'm guessing so do most users, is that there should be no need for me to download profiles for addons I have in my community folder? It's a pain, confusing and should not be necessary given the price. Surely, surely there is a way for you to write a utility which would analyse the community folder and download and instal official developer profiles? Do this simple thing and the complaints will stop.

[Farlis]

Just now, jarmstro said:

Yes but what I would like, and I'm guessing so do most users, is that there should be no need for me to download profiles for addons I have in my community folder? It's a pain, confusing and should not be necessary given the price. Surely, surely there is a way for you to write a utility which would analyse the community folder and download and instal official developer profiles? Do this simple thing and the complaints will stop.

I'm sorry, but don't make your personal problem into a general one. Just because this is confusing to you, doesn't mean it is to others.

It is as easy as pie. Download, drop into the folder specified in the Appdata, done.

[jarmstro]

6 minutes ago, Farlis said:

I'm sorry, but don't make your personal problem into a general one. Just because this is confusing to you, doesn't mean it is to others.

It is as easy as pie. Download, drop into the folder specified in the Appdata, done.

Yes I know. But it should not be necessary and should be automatic as profiles from developers are made available. Why is this too much to ask for £30? How am I meant to know or remember who made the fifty or so airports i have in my community folder? 

Edited September 1, 2022 by jarmstro

[virtuali]

5 minutes ago, jarmstro said:

Surely, surely there is a way for you to write a utility which would analyse the community folder and download and instal official developer profiles?

Now you are saying something entirely different, that is "official developers profiles"

Which developers you are referring to ? We provided GSX profiles for all our main sceneries that would be enhanced by GSX, like KCLT, KORD, LSZH, LSFB, KSDF and CYVR. If you have any of those, you haven't even *noticed* because they are coming with Live Updates.

Other developers can just create their own GSX profiles and place them directly in the scenery package, no need to download anything, but how would you expect developers would already have GSX profiles ready, only 12 days after release ?