www.avsim.ru

[mgh 89]

No you can't, because PizzaHut has taken the precaution of registering its name as a trademark in order to protect it. AVSIM apparently didn't and so has no legal protection.

[Guest LOT]

It's part of the whole Flight Simulator community ;) This good website is owned by (http://harrierpanels.avsim.ru/estore/IGFly/index.html) IGFly Team.

[Guest Holiday_K]

GreetingsGuys, Im not understand one, what for we divide the virtual sky? What for we try to search what for that malicious intention, in fact all of us are in love with the virtual sky, all we love to fly in it, all we use different Russian sceneries of our authors . Well what difference what name at a site? We, Russian, are always glad to all at our forum, always we shall help and we shall prompt concerning ours of the sceneries or planes.And in my opinion silly to write that at a forum there are people exchange varez and etc. Im the moderator of the given forum and all attempts to receive varez at once are stopped by moderators of a forum. Do not speak nonsense if not know.PS Sorry for my EnglishBest RegardsKonstantin

[Guest spotlight2000]

Dear Sirs,avsim.ru - is just russian brief "aviacionny simulator", that web source was established in year 2002.No illegal, stolen, piracy software, links, cracks allowed at avsim.ru library, news ans forum/chat soursesIf participant advertises anything, offers freeware for money, promices to help with piracy software, links and cracks - he is to be excluded from the list of users forewer.All files, placed at avsim.ru's library have got readme file with copyright information.All files, placed at avsim.ru's library are freeware.There are no payd projects, offered for free at avsim.ruAt the moment avsim.ru promotes FS9 and FSX and it's free additionsThere are a lot of talent painters, AI creators, model designers in Russia.We (russian simmers) are proud of our free projects, such as:Project Tupolev Tu154B-2Project Tupolev IL62MSCS Tupolev Tu134Scenery designers Tolmachevo Team and others.

[Guest spotlight2000]

[barryward12345 0]

Hmm- we should all consider that there is a difference between "copyright" and registered business names and trademarks. I don't fully understand that difference - maybe someone could tell us more about it. Also there are such things as National boundaries - so it is possible that perhaps copyright, business names or trademarks registered in one country are not necessarily registered in another country For example, we have a company making motohomes here in Australia - called Winnebago. Absolutely nothing to do with the US motorhome Company called Winnebago. How is it done? - Don't ask me . Does anybody know? Barry

[aentwis 61]

Hi!Just read this thread through... and noticed that a few people still don't get the difference between copyrights and trademarks, even after martinboehme's post...This is one of the most common sources of headache in online business, be it for financial gain or not...To type out the definitions of copyright, trademarks and so on would take too long, and anyway, some websites have done that work for me...So let me give you all a couple of links:http://www.patent.gov.uk/copy/definition.htm provides a full definition of copyright, and what may be copyright protected. This is the British definition, though I see few differences, if any, with definitions in other countries (given the previous poster's comments about the Berne Convention).Avsim cannot be copyright protected. It is a trademark and may only be protected through registration. See the following for a full definition of what exactly a trademark is: http://www.patent.gov.uk/tm/whatis/definition.htmThere are a few other pages with interesting information to be found at the UK patent office website by the way...Trademarks are intellectual property, may be enforced through registration and can be registered on a country by country or region by region basis. Obviously, the cost of registration of a trademark increases with the number of countries. On registration, a trademark must be marked accordingly (with the TM or

[aentwis 61]

>If someone besides the copyright owners created a target.br,>mcdonalds.de, or a microsoft.ru; you know there would be ####>to pay in a court battle. ;)>John,McDonald's

[aentwis 61]

Hi Shad...liked your scirocco story!Just a quick point. IBM is not a common abbreviation, it stands clearly for International Business Machines. It is the official abbreviation of the company name. The acronym AVSIM could stand for several things, as indeed it does, aviation simulator, simulation, audio visual simulation and so on. It is not a registered trademark for anything or anyone.There is no recourse against avsim.ru just because Russia is a signatory of the Madrid Agreement, because avsim have no international rights to the name AVSIM. For this they would need to register their intellectual property internationally. If avsim.ru were to do this, then the boot could well be on the other foot!Andrew

[aentwis 61]

Hi John!Please explain to me haw avsim.ru has stolen copyright. Copyright on what?The avsim name cannot be copyright protected. It is only intellectual property when the trademark has been registered internationally, which I do not believe to be the case. There are no copyright issues here.With all due respect, you should make sure you have all the facts and know the background material before posting.Andrew

[aentwis 61]

Hi Tom,same issue: you don't copyright protect a trade name. Trademarks may only be registered. Until you do so, there is no way of stopping any other party from adopting a similar or same name. Focussing on trademark registration is not missing the point. It is stating a clear legal fact.You make references to copyright abuse, pirating of commercial software and so on. You may not have directly mentioned avsim.ru as taking part in these activities yourself, however, it can be implied that you are accusing them of doing so. For that you need proof, incontrovertible proof. Do not forget that avsim's forums are publicly viewable and as such, comments of that nature may be taken as slander. Other members have directly accused avsim.ru of these crimes (which they are), with no provision of evidence whatsoever and with no action by an administrator warning them of the slander.The .ru comes simply from the fact that the domain was registered in Russia. If these issues are such a problem, you have no choice other than to register Aviation Simulation Publishing (AVSIM) internationally as a trademark and secure the domains accordingly.I would be interested to know in what proven way avsim.ru has damaged avsim.com and in what way avsim.ru benefits from avsim.com. Has avsim.com lost advertising revenue as a result of avsim.ru?The entire avsim.ru website is in Cyrillic... do you speak and read Russian?I know this is a contentious issue - the cause of numerous headaches in webspace worldwide. It is not worth getting annoyed with it unless there are noticeable and proven damages, particularly if you do not see registration of the trademark as a necessity.Andrew

[michal 44]

>He sais truth.The truth is that your site is using someone else's name. Apart from legalities and what is permissable by law or not there is such a thing as common "courtesy", perhaps term unknown in Russia these days. If you are going to plagiarize a name why not ask first? Why not ask for permission and perhaps arrive at some understanding? Common courtesy would dictate this. Your arguments about Avsim suffereing any business losses have real nothing to do here and only prove how detached you are from common business practices.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/for...argo_hauler.gifhttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

[samdim 26]

Tom,I am just sad about this discussion. After reading the topic, I still can't see how did avsim.ru harm avsim.com in any way. But I did find many unfair statements like "they spread pirated software", "they sell freeware", "they gain money with our name", followed by "anywhere, I don't speak Russian, so I can't check it". Those charges can't stand. I often visit avsim.ru forum (I do speak Russian, I'm French born in Russia) and find it very good, technically and aesthetically way superior to avsim.com. I confirm what has been said that any piracy related stuff is strictly banned. Nothing is sold from the site, no charged freeware distribution. As for the advertisement, the only banner points to the IGFly site who is simply the site's host. Nothing else! The file library is not as rich as the avsim.com's one, but it is also less "spammed" by low quality add-ons and repaints. Moreover, the files are noted by users, which is very useful. Honestly, don't you attack avsim.ru just because they are... better ?Anywhere, avsim.ru is purely Russian language site. Many of the registered users just don't speak English and will never go to avsim.com anyway. Those who speak English visit both sites. So where is the evil? For me avsim.com is the reference site that I deeply respect (I always upload my work here), but I find great that there is a site avsim.ru dedicated to russian/soviet aviation, and I would also like to find avsim.uk, avsim.it, avsim.br related to british, italian, brasilian aviation etc. "Avsim" is the common divider that helps us to navigate in the simulator branch of the Internet. You should rather be proud to have created this common divider, instead of atacking a site that is complementary to yours. I didn't expect so much cold-war hate on this site.DimitriSamdim Design

[Shaka 2]

>Tom,>I am just sad about this discussion. After reading the topic,>I still can't see how did avsim.ru harm avsim.com in any way....This thread seems to have evolved into a quite a few opinions from armchair-lawyers who have helped us clarify the differences between copyrights and trademarks, and whether Avsim has any legal recourse. But I don't think that this was the point. I think that the real issue is not one over "legality" but one of "ethics". Is it morally right to steal someones good name to furthur your own interests? I don't think so, even if the (good) intent is to provide better resources to Russian speaking people.>Moreover, the files are noted by users, which is very useful.>Honestly, don't you attack avsim.ru just because they are...>better ?...I seriously doubt that anyone on this board believes that avsim.ru is somehow better. Who is attacking whom now? Moreover, Tom didn't start this thread, he merely responded to it and voiced his displeasure that someone would try to get onboard the Avsim bandwagon by using thier name.>Anywhere, avsim.ru is purely Russian language site. Many of>the registered users just don't speak English and will never>go to avsim.com anyway. Those who speak English visit both>sites. So where is the evil? You're absolutely right. There are plenty of people in the world who don't speak English, so a Russian language site (or Thai, or Japanese, etc.) makes a lot of sense. I'm not saying it is "evil", I'm just saying there was another way to do it without stealing someone's good name.- Martin

[mgh 89]

>Is it morally right to steal someones good name to furthur your own >interests?and>I'm not saying it is "evil", I'm just saying there was another >way to do it without stealing someone's good name.Again incorrect uses of the word "stealing". If this thread has clarified anything, it is that AVSIM has few rights to the use of its name and certainly none in Russia. It's not possible to steal something that isn't owned. Google gives a common sense definition of steal as meaning "take without the owner's consent."