XP12: the good, the bad, the ugly

[HiFlyer 9,332]

1 hour ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

I wish msfs road traffic was like xplane. 

I would tend to disagree.

XP traffic is much more "orderly" but its also always felt like slot cars to me, (Hotwheels to be exact) and on rails, with even the police cars always speeding by on the same outer or inner position of the "Track".

These tracks seem to be the core around which the whole XP housing grid is based, which can make some towns/cities look quite odd (to me!) without orthos to attenuate some of the strangeness.

Edited September 18, 2022 by HiFlyer

[MrBitstFlyer 3,812]

34 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

I would tend to disagree.

XP traffic is much more "orderly" but its also always felt like slot cars to me, (Hotwheels to be exact) and on rails, with even the police cars always speeding by on the same outer or inner position of the "Track".

These tracks seem to be the core around which the whole XP housing grid is based, which can make some towns/cities look quite odd without orthos to attenuate some of the strangeness.

'Housing grid'? 

SimHeaven available for free has correct placement of 1.4 BILLION buildings, 900,000 of which are building footprints from MSFS.  If a particular country has a grid system for its roads, where is the issue?

[HiFlyer 9,332]

52 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

'Housing grid'? 

SimHeaven available for free has correct placement of 1.4 BILLION buildings, 900,000 of which are building footprints from MSFS.  If a particular country has a grid system for its roads, where is the issue?

Since you asked, I would say the issue is fatigue. (for me)

With Xp11, I put in the hours and the effort (and the disk space!) to download all that ortho stuff from simhaven and elsewhere. (Blueboy, or something)

Then the plugins to enhance shadows and FPS

Then the housing mods/facades

And the ground geometry mods!

And the freeware planes of wildly varying quality

Then the dozens of libraries

Then the tree mods

ETC!

In the end, it felt like a massive effort to get the sim where I wanted it, and when unidentifiable conflicts occurred, I ended up regularly in the config, checking and checking the integrity of a bazillion addons.

ATC plugins, weather plugins, reduce road traffic plugins, water plugins, shadow plugins...

Oh, there was also a plugin that claimed to be able to automatically rationalize your config...

BUT!!

Various scenery designers did not necessarily follow the standard conventions, and often the plugin just gave back question marks.

Plus, many of the freeware orthos were pretty bad, anyway.

There's a parabola that I found myself following, with both XP and P3D

The greedy stage, where you're full of enthusiasm, the skys the limit, and you are more than willing to devote possibly months to getting your setup up and running as best you can.

Then there is the bug and CTD and other stuff phase.....

Then there is a sort of "cruise" phase where you decide there is nothing more you can do.

Then there is the gradual dissatisfaction stage, where you decide to start removing things.

Then there is the back to default stage, where you wait for the next version to be better.

Unfortunately, MSFS kind of interrupted the cycle, and also decided to throw free stuff at us by the boatful (that we formerly had to pay for.....)

Right now myself, and I suspect many of us, have the choice of piecemeal hand construction of our sim, as in days of old, or just just face-shovel into the smorgasbord on the other side.

Frankly, I'm not sure I find the old paradigm attractive enough to dive into it again, and like many, I'm kind of waiting for XP to prove it offers something attractive enough to make old school still worth it.

Right now, I'm finding my XP flights very short; 10 to 20 minutes before a sense of I'm-not-sure-what sets in and I close the program.

I'm looking for reasons to stick with it..... But doing the same old dance is... not attractive.

Edited September 18, 2022 by HiFlyer
Added missing info

[Dirk.M 84]

--

Edited September 18, 2022 by Dirk.M

[Gary1124 181]

On 9/17/2022 at 10:37 AM, Doering said:

For the vast majority of people on these forums (more advanced enthusiasts) the above points definitely add to the total simulation experience. For the flight simulation community at large, people pick an airplane, pick a country, pick an airport, have the aircraft ready to go on the RWY and push the throttle. From that point it is experiencing what different parts of the earth look like. Visiting places that you always thought would be neat to see. Advances in scenery technology on the other platform have spurred a whole new generation of people who are experiencing the visuals of flight in new parts of the earth for the very first time with significant accuracy (at a beyond incredible price out of the box).

Cross continent and around the world tours have taken on a new meaning in the last two years. I was an avid XP user before August 18, 2020, as the latest XP version had jumped ahead of FSX in overall realism. Technology changed the flight simulation game. Unfortunately, as I see it, significant improvements in default scenery are not a priority for LR and this fact alone has shifted the average flight simmer off the XP platform.

I suppose I am not average. I always have aircraft loaded cold and dark. I always do spot view walk around following the checks. I always start according to checks. I do run up, mag check. I lean on ground to prevent fowling. Lean in flight to save fuel. I follow all flight regime checks. At uncontrolled fields in XP I fake UNICOM reporting. Don't have to fake in P3D but I use MCE, sometimes Vatsim if my area is covered. I suppose Im too busy "operating" the aircraft to look at the ground much.

[darshonaut 237]

Only thing I do not like at all at the moment is the magenta issue-

I get it regularly, with my RX580 with 8GB VRAM.

It also can just go away suddenly after a while.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2022 by darshonaut

[Humpty 751]

11 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

Since you asked, I would say the issue is fatigue. (for me)

With Xp11, I put in the hours and the effort (and the disk space!) to download all that ortho stuff from simhaven and elsewhere. (Blueboy, or something)

Then the plugins to enhance shadows and FPS

Then the housing mods/facades

And the ground geometry mods!

And the freeware planes of wildly varying quality

Then the dozens of libraries

Then the tree mods

ETC!

In the end, it felt like a massive effort to get the sim where I wanted it, and when unidentifiable conflicts occurred, I ended up regularly in the config, checking and checking the integrity of a bazillion addons.

ATC plugins, weather plugins, reduce road traffic plugins, water plugins, shadow plugins...

Oh, there was also a plugin that claimed to be able to automatically rationalize your config...

BUT!!

Various scenery designers did not necessarily follow the standard conventions, and often the plugin just gave back question marks.

Plus, many of the freeware orthos were pretty bad, anyway.

There's a parabola that I found myself following, with both XP and P3D

The greedy stage, where you're full of enthusiasm, the skys the limit, and you are more than willing to devote possibly months to getting your setup up and running as best you can.

Then there is the bug and CTD and other stuff phase.....

Then there is a sort of "cruise" phase where you decide there is nothing more you can do.

Then there is the gradual dissatisfaction stage, where you decide to start removing things.

Then there is the back to default stage, where you wait for the next version to be better.

Unfortunately, MSFS kind of interrupted the cycle, and also decided to throw free stuff at us by the boatful (that we formerly had to pay for.....)

Right now myself, and I suspect many of us, have the choice of piecemeal hand construction of our sim, as in days of old, or just just face-shovel into the smorgasbord on the other side.

Frankly, I'm not sure I find the old paradigm attractive enough to dive into it again, and like many, I'm kind of waiting for XP to prove it offers something attractive enough to make old school still worth it.

Right now, I'm finding my XP flights very short; 10 to 20 minutes before a sense of I'm-not-sure-what sets in and I close the program.

I'm looking for reasons to stick with it..... But doing the same old dance is... not attractive.

Devon

 Firstly I would like to repeat again that we simmers are comparing a billion dollar company with a probably not even a 100 million dollar company. makes no sense.

MS has tremendous resources , they can pour in a lot of money and pullout when they see no profits.

Had tried MSFS for a month with the game pass , personally it didn't fit well with me. 

Also one of the reasons at least me not wanting MSFS would be no great helis.  on the psychological level it felt like a kidZ game , XP is also a game but it didn't register as a game psychologically , probably to do with the helicopters , again this is a personal opinion.

XP12 is a big improvement from XP11 , but some can't digest that.  They will find something to talk about , is XP perfect NOPE so is MSFS. 

I do want the scenery of MSFS but that is not possible in XP,  maybe in the future. There are certain aspects that can be done I am sure.

I don't want XP to look like MFS.  I find XP to be much better in looks, again this is a personal opinion.

The lighting has improved so has the water and the weather and I like those clouds , ofc it needs more refinement.

 

[mSparks 2,086]

2 hours ago, Humpty said:

  I find XP to be much better in looks

I find XP puts and has always put a lot of effort into manifesting

"better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground".

I think its the only sim that even tries.

There is something special about really capturing that ugly, terrifiying but also awe inspiring aspect of flight that is now paying dividends in xp12 where they can really take what they have already invested decades into a "next gen" world.

[flying_carpet 657]

16 hours ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

'Housing grid'? 

SimHeaven available for free has correct placement of 1.4 BILLION buildings, 900,000 of which are building footprints from MSFS.  If a particular country has a grid system for its roads, where is the issue?

Wheras the building footprints from MSFS don't solve every problem (it's not the holy grail 😉). I have seen buildings placed e.g. in roundabouts or on lakes (probably in fact boats/ships). Still, it adds buildings where OSM isn't filled completely.

[skipph 82]

20 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

Since you asked, I would say the issue is fatigue. (for me)

With Xp11, I put in the hours and the effort (and the disk space!) to download all that ortho stuff from simhaven and elsewhere. (Blueboy, or something)

Then the plugins to enhance shadows and FPS

Then the housing mods/facades

And the ground geometry mods!

And the freeware planes of wildly varying quality

Then the dozens of libraries

Then the tree mods

ETC!

In the end, it felt like a massive effort to get the sim where I wanted it, and when unidentifiable conflicts occurred, I ended up regularly in the config, checking and checking the integrity of a bazillion addons.

ATC plugins, weather plugins, reduce road traffic plugins, water plugins, shadow plugins...

Oh, there was also a plugin that claimed to be able to automatically rationalize your config...

BUT!!

Various scenery designers did not necessarily follow the standard conventions, and often the plugin just gave back question marks.

Plus, many of the freeware orthos were pretty bad, anyway.

There's a parabola that I found myself following, with both XP and P3D

The greedy stage, where you're full of enthusiasm, the skys the limit, and you are more than willing to devote possibly months to getting your setup up and running as best you can.

Then there is the bug and CTD and other stuff phase.....

Then there is a sort of "cruise" phase where you decide there is nothing more you can do.

Then there is the gradual dissatisfaction stage, where you decide to start removing things.

Then there is the back to default stage, where you wait for the next version to be better.

Unfortunately, MSFS kind of interrupted the cycle, and also decided to throw free stuff at us by the boatful (that we formerly had to pay for.....)

Right now myself, and I suspect many of us, have the choice of piecemeal hand construction of our sim, as in days of old, or just just face-shovel into the smorgasbord on the other side.

Frankly, I'm not sure I find the old paradigm attractive enough to dive into it again, and like many, I'm kind of waiting for XP to prove it offers something attractive enough to make old school still worth it.

Right now, I'm finding my XP flights very short; 10 to 20 minutes before a sense of I'm-not-sure-what sets in and I close the program.

I'm looking for reasons to stick with it..... But doing the same old dance is... not attractive.

+1

[skipph 82]

+1  Skip

[Gulfstream 416]

17 hours ago, Gary1124 said:

I suppose I am not average. I always have aircraft loaded cold and dark. I always do spot view walk around following the checks. I always start according to checks. I do run up, mag check. I lean on ground to prevent fowling. Lean in flight to save fuel. I follow all flight regime checks. At uncontrolled fields in XP I fake UNICOM reporting. Don't have to fake in P3D but I use MCE, sometimes Vatsim if my area is covered. I suppose Im too busy "operating" the aircraft to look at the ground much.

This is silly.

I'm a US/CPMEL and I am very familiar with all of the operations you list above, in the real world.

That sounds like a VFR flight to me, which means looking out the window.  You can't fly VFR without "looking at the ground much".

If you are launching 0/0 and doing a CAT-III inbound with a follow-me truck, then perhaps you can disregard the outside visuals.

[HiFlyer 9,332]

And.....

Here is the organizer tool I mentioned earlier, updated for XP12.

Sorry, but I'm not going anywhere near it, right now. (Been there, done that)

But maybe some of you out there will find it useful: xOrganizer v3 XP12

And.... wasn't this thing free, back in the day?

[Humpty 751]

That's not bad !

[Bjoern 1,151]

Time for a screenshot thread.