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abrams_tank

Asobo may dumb down wind gusts again - stop them please!

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Asobo “might” have done something on            the back end because it’s much better now. I was part of SU10 beta and my only gripe was constant gusts everywhere .  It stayed pretty smooth until I got below the cumulus layer and it got bumpy. I tested in a low wind area and where gusts were on the metar. Seeing bumps in cumulus clouds too. Can someone else test?


Tony Fontaine

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32 minutes ago, Mike T said:

So yes, MSFS is just a game used for entertainment purposes it is apt to be "arcadey" in many instances.

But what does it even mean? It behaves like Donkey Kong? Especially rl pilots could be very helpful in making more specific comments like ‘747 yaws roughly 30% too much in gusts’, and that could be helpful (of course, then we have the problem that rl pilots often disagree in these things as well).

Not all pilots are highly articulate, but I imagine they could do better than ‘feels arcadey’.

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51 minutes ago, LRBS said:

after a sim session we have an evaluation form, on top of that there is a maintenance book where we actually, like in the real airplane, we make entries of the discrepancies noted during the session.

Great, so there’s an established template for detailed feedback. Maybe you could pass some of that on to Asobo rather than ‘meh, feels arcadey’?

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If the ATIS says the wind is gusting fine make the sim have gusts.  If on the ATIS there are no gusts, then I hope the sim isn't throwing out random gusts just for fun.

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There is no way stopping them.

Because they like adding something really awesome and really cool and absolute fantastic (for example the airplane windows fully icing over like it was in the early months after the release of the sim) - just to take the awesome features or realism enhancements away again some time later... 😄

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Voice ATIS doesn't mention gusts. I think the gusts and thermal turbulence is great.  As far as wind gusts matching reported metars I think it's on par.  Get that shift-z ghizz whizz and you will see what I am talking about.

https://flightsim.to/file/16358/shift-z-stats

                                                                         My Penny Happy Landings,

                                                                                          JW

 

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10 hours ago, sd_flyer said:

I'm frankly surprise to  to hear world  "arcade" from someone who fly commercially. MSFS got it right. Perhaps tweaking heavy aircraft would be more appropriate.

Thanks for responding!  If you like the gusts in SU 10, then I say we keep it!


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14 hours ago, abrams_tank said:

Alright.  As I am not a real life pilot, I have been asking around some real life pilots what they think of the new wind gusts in SU 10.  I think several real life pilots said they like it (I would also like to hear back from @sd_flyer on what he thinks of the new wind gusts in SU 10). 737 NG Driver said that Asobo may dumb down the gusts again, because many "simmers" and not real life pilots, have complained that it's too hard to fly in SU 10 now.

Anyways, if you are a real life pilot and you like the new wind gusts, and you think they they are realistic, please post in this thread that you don't want Asobo to dumb down the wind gusts again: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/thanks-asobo-this-turbulence-is-absolutely-spot-on/544851/24.  There is also a poll in that thread with 3 options: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/thanks-asobo-this-turbulence-is-absolutely-spot-on/544851/57.  Please vote for the option, "I like it but would like to see turbulence improved, including interaction with clouds" because I think at the moment, there isn't any turbulence from being inside clouds.

I am basing my vote to keep wind gusts from the several real life pilots that I read comments from, including 737 NG Driver, who really likes the wind gusts:

I may change my opinion if other real life pilots say the gusts should be dumbed down, but for now, from the feedback that I have gathered, more real life pilots tend to like the new gusts and turbulence in SU 10.

Please be aware that the 737 pilot that made this Youtube video has an agenda - he is employed by PMDG and has an extensive history of glossing over flaws in both the PMDG 737 sim and MSFS2020 itself.   Any inferences that MSFS2020 is not working realistically and that the PMDG 737 would be compromised as a result is BAD for business, so Emi (the 737 pilot) tends to immediately step in and demonstrate how not only is nothing wrong, but it's actually perfect.   😉    You will get this behavior from this guy over and over - his job is to sell PMDG products and stave off anything that gets in the way of that endeavor.    

Emi recently answered a question from a PMDG forum user about how the PMDG 737's own autopilot couldn't handle the new wind gusts and, as a result, the aircraft would violently veer off the runway.   Emi assured the forum user that the real 737's autopilot can't handle gusting conditions either, which quite frankly is counter to every technical document I've ever read about the real 737.  

The new MSFS2020 wind gust introduced by SU10 are simply overdone and too erratic; not realistic at all.   Asobo needs to dampen the effects or every landing we make will be essentially like landing in a hurricane.   Real aircraft must indeed deal with gusting wind conditions, but Asobo needs to tune this extensively, otherwise they will alienate both developers and end-users who won't invest in products that have seriously compromised fidelity.  

Edited by hobart escin
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20 minutes ago, hobart escin said:

Please be aware that the 737 pilot that made this Youtube video has an agenda - he is employed by PMDG and has an extensive history of glossing over flaws in both the PMDG 737 sim and MSFS2020 itself.   Any inferences that MSFS2020 is not working realistically and that the PMDG 737 would be compromised as a result is BAD for business, so Emi (the 737 pilot) tends to immediately step in and demonstrate how not only is nothing wrong, but it's actually perfect.   😉    You will get this behavior from this guy over and over - his job is to sell PMDG products and stave off anything that gets in the way of that endeavor.    

Emi recently answered a question from a PMDG forum user about how the PMDG 737's own autopilot couldn't handle the new wind gusts and, as a result, the aircraft would violently veer off the runway.   Emi assured the forum user that the real 737's autopilot can't handle gusting conditions either, which quite frankly is counter to every technical document I've ever read about the real 737.  

The new MSFS2020 wind gust introduced by SU10 are simply overdone and too erratic; not realistic at all.   Asobo needs to dampen the effects or every landing we make will be essentially like landing in a hurricane.   Real aircraft must indeed deal with gusting wind conditions, but Asobo needs to tune this extensively, otherwise they will alienate both developers and end-users who won't invest in products that have seriously compromised fidelity.  

Oh please stop it.  You are on a relatively new account, joining on May 19 of this year.  On May 19, when you joined Avsim on May 19, your second post on May 19 was this:

Quote

Thanks guys for the info - kinda figured as much.  Just no. 

MSFS2020 uninstalled, XBox Game Pass subscription canceled. 

Total loss to me:  $1 

Frustration factor avoided: priceless. 

SSD space recovered: 150mb

  

Prepar3d, prepar3e to be loved all over again.    😘

You don't even use MSFS anymore, you use P3D. Yet none of your posts are in the P3D forum, almost all your posts are here in the MSFS forum. And almost your posts here in the  MSFS forum are critical of MSFS.  For somebody that dislikes MSFS and uses P3D, you sure spend a lot of time in the MSFS forum here on Avsim. Maybe post in the P3D forums once in a while to balance your post count, rather than making all your posts here in the MSFS forum.

Please don't accuse 737 NG Driver of an agenda. Maybe look at yourself first.

Edited by abrams_tank
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7 hours ago, scotchegg said:

But what does it even mean? It behaves like Donkey Kong? Especially rl pilots could be very helpful in making more specific comments like ‘747 yaws roughly 30% too much in gusts’, and that could be helpful (of course, then we have the problem that rl pilots often disagree in these things as well).

Not all pilots are highly articulate, but I imagine they could do better than ‘feels arcadey’.

As just a simple recreational pilot (and probably not a very articulate one) I cant tell you what information a 747 captain is able to confer, but I very much doubt he would be able to detail gust reaction to percentages he simply doesnt have the information available to him to make such an appraisal in routine operations and would have to be a little less definitive than you would like.

 

Understandably there is often a disconnect between  reality and what sim users think is possible

 

 

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I still wonder if it's to blame on the gusts or on the FM....

Variable winds / turbulence can be manually defined in MFS, using an interesting method where user can actually "modulate" the intensity over a time period, but the end effect when I tested it for the first time is pretty bad for shorter periods, and comparable to XP11 turbulence modelling which is rather awkward... 

But the kind of gusts / turbulence I get from Real World-injected weather feel more consistent, although slightly overdone at times...

IRL flying over a densely populated area can become bumpy as well, even on an airliner on short final passing over an array of buildings on a windy day. I believe MFS models this better than any other flightsim ( XP12 included ), and while I agree it probably need further tunning it doesn't mean it has to be severely tamed.

Glider pilots aren't the best reference for "smooth ride" specially if their operations ( like mine ) IRL occur 90% of the time in convective weather... I get bumped allover during the formation flight phase of my flights ( tug sometimes jumps wildly ahead of me and I know what's coming in seconds ahead ... ). I've seen more often than I would like, canopies broken by pilots who weren't correctly tied to their seats by properly used seatbelts.

 

 

Edited by jcomm
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6 minutes ago, jcomm said:

I still wonder if it's to blame on the gusts or on the FM....

Variable winds / turbulence can be manually defined in MFS, using an interesting method where user can actually "modulate" the intensity over a time period, but the end effect when I tested it for the first time is prettyad, and comparable to XP11 turbulence modelling which is rather awkward... 

But the kind of gusts / turbulence I get from Real World-injected weather feel more consistent, although slightly overdone at times...

IRL flying over a densely populated area can become bumpy as well, even on an airliner on short final passing over an array of buildings on a windy day. I believe MFS models this better than any other flightsim ( XP12 included ), and while I agree it probably need further tunning it doesn't mean it has to be severely tamed.

 

Hope you can give this feedback in the gusts thread at https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/thanks-asobo-this-turbulence-is-absolutely-spot-on/544851/224. The reason is, I don't think Asobo will read your comments here.  Asobo is more likely to read it at the official MSFS forums at flighsimulator.com.   It seems the overwhelming number of real life pilots like the gusts in SU 10 (in the poll, I think 98% of poll responders like the gusts, just 2% don't like it), but the gusts and flight model may need a little tweaking, as you mentioned.

In any case, people like me who are not real life pilots, will rely on real life pilots like you to give the right feedback to Asobo 👍

Edited by abrams_tank
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11 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

You don't even use MSFS anymore, you use P3D. Yet none of your posts are in the P3D forum, almost all your posts are here in the MSFS forum. And almost your posts here in the  MSFS forum are critical of MSFS.  For somebody that dislikes MSFS and uses P3D, you sure spend a lot of time in the MSFS forum here on Avsim. Maybe post in the P3D forums once in a while to balance your post count, rather than making all your posts here in the MSFS forum.

Please don't accuse 737 NG Driver of an agenda. Maybe look at yourself first.

Well said, you couldn't get a more honest and helpful guy than Emi. And to try and slander the guy on a forum is pretty digusting IMO. he always states he is a RWP on the 737, he also states he is employed by PMDG, yet gives his opinion on a variety of aircraft and operation. I have certainly not seen any PMDG Bias.

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7 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

Hope you can give this feedback in the gusts thread at https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/thanks-asobo-this-turbulence-is-absolutely-spot-on/544851/224. The reason is, I don't think Asobo will read your comments here.  Asobo is more likely to read it at the official MSFS forums at flighsimulator.com.   It seems the overwhelming number of real life pilots like the gusts in SU 10 (in the poll, I think 98% of poll responders like the gusts, just 2% don't like it), but the gusts and flight model may need a little tweaking, as you mentioned.

In any case, people like me who are not real life pilots, will rely on real life pilots like you to give the right feedback to Asobo 👍

I already did, yesterday, and even pasted the link in this thread 🙂

For years MS FS was said to be on-rails compared to X-Plane. As a proud XP12 user now I can state that I do prefer by far MFS's way of simulating gusts and overall turbulence effects. XP12 does look on-rails now to me... rather on-rails...

 

Edited by jcomm
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Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

I dreamed of becoming an airline pilot, but didn't fight enough for it... Simulators give me the chance to play being one...

 

 

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1 minute ago, jcomm said:

I already did, yesterday, and even pasted the link in this thread 🙂

 

Thank you for your service 👍

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