Good news - Bad News for MSFS and AMD 7000

[enright 496]

32 minutes ago, GodAtum said:

Are there any 4K reviews? Only found 1080p so far

That's because @ 4k you start to become more GPU limited - so you are no longer stressing the CPU as much. In general, 4k benchmarks tend to look just like the 1080 benchmarks, only with much less of a variation in performance - and sometimes none at all.

I haven't found any 4k MSFS benchmarks yet either for that reason, but you can safely assume the highest performance CPU @ 1080 is also the highest performing CPU @ 4k.

[enright 496]

4 hours ago, TravelRunner404 said:

The good news: It’s looking like the 5800x3D is still king so those in the market for a CPU upgrade will be able to save some significant money with AM4 platform and an older generation CPU. Those who need latest and greatest get to wait until Intel or x3D 2nd gen improves. 
 

The bad news: We likely aren’t getting a generational leap with CPUs this year.  I doubt intel can beat the x3D in MSFS so we will wait to see if AMD releases 7000 series x3D. Some rumors say Q1 2023 but others say Spring 2023
 

Reviews:

https://videocardz.com/138525/amd-ryzen-7000-zen4-raphael-desktop-cpu-review-roundup

Interesting - I wonder why the extra cache is not a standard part of all of the AMD SKUs? It seems to make such a difference in multiple benchmarks and it doesn't appear to add a huge amount to the cost (if the MSRP of the 5800X3D is any indication). Why wouldn't you just adopt the 3d cache architecture as the new standard?

"To milk customers for more $$$" can't be the sole reason, since they are undercutting themselves at this point.

Maybe they can't ramp production for that process as quickly as they'd like?

I have a 5600x - and have never upgraded to another SKU in the same generation before - but this time it's tempting. Waiting for the 7000 series X3D might require too much patience.

[rka 916]

27 minutes ago, enright said:

I have a 5600x - and have never upgraded to another SKU in the same generation before - but this time it's tempting. Waiting for the 7000 series X3D might require too much patience.

I'm in the same boat but I'm not going to do it at current prices I think. There will be used ones at better prices once next gen is out.

[HarryVoyager 21]

@enright It *is* more expensive. The 5800X3D came out about a year and a half after the 5800X at the same retail price the 5800X did at launch.

Any time you add a die to a system it will be more expensive. Especially one that requires novel precision packaging. 

We should expect to see that cost hit with the Zen 4 Vcache chips. That the 5800X3D was priced as a 5800 is mostly because it was launched to counter Alder Lake, and was a bit of a stop gap prototype, with some real limits we won't see on the Zen 4 chips. 

On CPU usage, I'd expect the Vcache chips to remain king of Dx11 work. Given that Dx12 is still not fully implemented, and we're very GPU limited too, I'm thinking out best bet is to wait until the next gen of GPUs hits retail, and MSFS's Dx12 implementation gents out of beta to see. 

I know right now in Dx12, on my 5800X3D, I see way high CPU usage, and way longer CPU frame times than I do in Dx11. In DX11, I'm usually getting sub 9ms CPU frametimes, with only ~15-20% usage, but DX12, I'll see 100% CPU usage for a 15ms frametime. But that's really probably down to drivers and maturity. 

[jfri 42]

4 hours ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

Raphael performance is very good in most games, but in cache-heavy scenarios like MSFS, 5800X3D remains the king. Wait for Raphael-X, Raptor Lake, or a potential 5800X3D price drop.

But how can there be benchmark result for AMD AM5 7000 series CPUs ? They are not released yet.

[HarryVoyager 21]

Just now, jfri said:

But how can there be benchmark result for AMD AM5 7000 series CPUs ? They are not released yet.

They shipped review samples out about a month ago to reviewers. Today was the day the review embargo ended. 

[KL Oo 695]

12 hours ago, ChaoticBeauty said:

Raphael performance is very good in most games, but in cache-heavy scenarios like MSFS, 5800X3D remains the king. Wait for Raphael-X, Raptor Lake, or a potential 5800X3D price drop.

Thanks for that CB - Where is that chart taken from?

I've got a 5800X3D at the moment but was happy to upgrade to the new platform with the 7950X whilst we wait for the new X3D to arrive.

From the looks of this thread it doesn't seem like its going to make much of a performance increase, although as another poster said, its hard to know how the MSFS benchmarks are done. 

Perhaps we're best waiting for somebody with a 7950X here to chime in with their experience.... 

[GCBraun 2,390]

I will probably keep my 12700 until the 7800X3D comes out. I believe that AMD will not wait that long this time around due to Raptor Lake. Besides that, purchasing a good AMD motherboard in a year or so will probably also allow for an upgrade to a 8800X3D in the future...

[KL Oo 695]

1 hour ago, GCBraun said:

I will probably keep my 12700 until the 7800X3D comes out. I believe that AMD will not wait that long this time around due to Raptor Lake. Besides that, purchasing a good AMD motherboard in a year or so will probably also allow for an upgrade to a 8800X3D in the future...

I'd do the same if I had the 12700 - Just doesn't quite look like there's enough performance increase to justify the switch when it comes to gaming. Hopefully the 7800X3D isn't too far away. I originally thought AMD suggested/hinted it might be later this year but it seems now its not going to be until Q1 2023 at the earliest 😞 

[ChaoticBeauty 6,692]

8 hours ago, KL Oo said:

Thanks for that CB - Where is that chart taken from?

It's from the Linus Tech Tips video review. Full video here:

Here is also one more from eTeknix with the 7900X. The frame rates are very high so obviously not a very demanding scenario was used, but the 5800X3D retains a significant lead.

Full video:

 

[Matt Webb 171]

Now I'm fully confused as to when and how to upgrade my 8700K 🤕

(was originally planning the next month or so)

I was thinking I should at least go for a motherboard with the new AMD socket....

Edited September 27, 2022 by Matt Webb

[KL Oo 695]

6 minutes ago, Matt Webb said:

Now I'm fully confused as to when and how to upgrade my 8700K 🤕

(was originally planning the next month or so)

I was thinking I should at least go for a motherboard with the new AMD socket....

I'd definitly hold out until at least the Intel release next month. Hopefully by then AMD indicate when they're going to release the 7800X3D. If the new Intel CPU's are strong then I would think AMD would push the 7800X3D sooner rather than later in order to ensure they retain supremacy in the gaming market. 

[G-RFRY 1,705]

AMD may have a problem Intel next flagship CPU could be cheaper than AMD and faster.

 Intel 13th Gen Core Raptor Lake CPU pricing leaked by Newegg (guru3d.com)

[G-RFRY 1,705]

AMD power efficiency is taking a kicking.

 AMD's R5 Mistake: Ryzen 5 7600X CPU Review, Benchmarks, & Expensive Motherboards - YouTube

AMD Ryzen 9 7900X CPU Review & Benchmarks vs. R7 1700, 7950X, & More - YouTube

Edited September 27, 2022 by G-RFRY

[HarryVoyager 21]

I'd strongly recommend going through Moore's Law is Dead: 

@G-RFRY Zen 4 efficiency is taking a beating on desktop because it's running in maximum performance mode. Apparently if you cap it at 45W, you still get about half the performance. 

The difference is, it can run >4x it's sweet spot to push it up to >5.8Ghz. Given it is thermaly limited, I actually wonder just how high it can automatically boost with a sufficient cooler. 

I suspect what we will see in practice is low power usage in most of our applications, with the ability to go bonkers for stuff that really needs the extra juice.