5 minutes ago, hobart escin said:

Precisely!   We constantly expect Asobo to make a perfect flight simulator and seem to relentlessly hold these wonderful people accountable for the least infraction.   It really makes me sick sometimes.

My technique for landing after the SU10 update now involves just landing "wherever the winds blows me"; i.e., if the wind is not blowing down the runway perfectly, I'll land her in the grass or something next to the runway.   People that for whatever reason take this game too seriously are always obsessed about landing on the runway when other places can be used just fine.  I'm thankful Asobo is giving us an opportunity to do things like this in our wonderful game.   

Troll alert. 

18 hours ago, Doering said:

Oshkosh was crazy on a couple of days this year. Cross wind landings with gusts in the mid twenties! A lot of close calls and a few landing accidents. I thought this guy was going around on the first attempt but he tries to put the Bonanza down a second time. He was lucky! Go to 17:33 of this video. 

 

This is a very interesting video regarding the "stupid" wind gusts: you can see that the behavior of a plane in the wing gusts strongly depends by the plane type. Also, the pilots here use the flaps very carefully, some of them don't make full extend, others have more problem with low wing planes (stronger ground effect). The C172 plane types with a moderate use of the flaps seem to have the best chance to land correctly in turbulent and Xwind conditions.

FS20 is simulating all this features, not perfect yet,  but the work is in progress.

 

Quote

 

Deleted misread a post

Edited October 6, 20223 yr by Pathfinder633

24 minutes ago, Jeeeno said:

Troll alert. 

I see Two

There's one thing I've noticed and would like to ask you to verify, if possible. I was checking out the new wind/gust behavior at EGHE (Scilly Isles/St Mary's Airport), which had some "nice" weather for that kind of thing. (BTW, if you haven't already, check out Superspud's rendition, it's one of those "can't believe it's freeware" add-ons...)

I got tossed about pretty badly by the winds there, but nothing I could complain about. As I was landing, however, I noticed some weird behavior. I was testing in the JPL Cessna 152 mod and the default Cessna 172 (Classic) and I noticed some issues with rudder authority. So, I started digging and deeper and found that I would (randomly, it seems) lose all rudder authority on the ground while taxiing at different speeds.

Could I ask someone to just taxi around the field and accelerate, decelerate, etc. while turning to see if this can be replicated?

20 hours ago, Doering said:

Oshkosh was crazy on a couple of days this year. Cross wind landings with gusts in the mid twenties! A lot of close calls and a few landing accidents. I thought this guy was going around on the first attempt but he tries to put the Bonanza down a second time. He was lucky! Go to 17:33 of this video. 

 

Someone should tell EAA to make the winds more realistic. 😉

55 minutes ago, tymk said:

I started digging and deeper and found that I would (randomly, it seems) lose all rudder authority on the ground while taxiing at different speeds.

Could I ask someone to just taxi around the field and accelerate, decelerate, etc. while turning to see if this can be replicated?

Yes, I've seen this. There are still bugs with ground handling. It's as though the friction calculation of the steer tire suddenly drops to 0.  It's especially bad in the poorly-modeled planes like the P51 in the Reno pack. Sometimes it's just not possible to take off in that thing and stay on the runway because the engine torque behaves properly but the tailwheel/rudder have no authority whatsoever until you're airborne, so you veer violently off to the side.

 

As far as I'm concerned, gusts are what occur after I've had a decent curry.

Now that I've found out how to turn them off in the sim, I'm perfectly happy for all you real world pilots to get blown about all over the place as you feel necessary.

Still never really felt any sim can approach realism unless you've got your whole desk/sim/chair/cockpit or whatever mounted on a hydraulic and vibrating platform, but then I'm more a laz-e-boy kinda guy <grin>

2 hours ago, hobart escin said:

 

My technique for landing after the SU10 update now involves just landing "wherever the winds blows me"; i.e., if the wind is not blowing down the runway perfectly, I'll land her in the grass or something next to the runway.   People that for whatever reason take this game too seriously are always obsessed about landing on the runway when other places can be used just fine.  I'm thankful Asobo is giving us an opportunity to do things like this in our wonderful game.   

Unless you land with 30 its direct crosswind or higher there is absolutely doable in current state of SU10. Do you use rudder pedals or twist stick. If you don't have rudder pedals I would strongly recommend buying them. It would help you control airplane with crosswind significantly.

3 hours ago, eslader said:

Yes, I've seen this. There are still bugs with ground handling. It's as though the friction calculation of the steer tire suddenly drops to 0.  It's especially bad in the poorly-modeled planes like the P51 in the Reno pack.

Thanks, I'll try to investigate some more tonight with the visualizations in developer mode -- I wonder if it's a problem with the flight model or with a poor choice of parameters in the default planes...

Earlier in the thread AvAngel had a flight in the Tiger Moth with almost  no turbulence. She changed the weather here and had lots of it. (The new Version 2 of the Kodiak- not yet released).

About 6:00 the wind effect increases to become nasty. (She's using Weather Preset Pro setting 'gusty').

 

 

Edited October 6, 20223 yr by Fielder

9 hours ago, cbcdesign said:

Real Pilots' opinions count though, the rest of us don't have a frame of reference. It's a flight simulator and we must allow people who know what is realistic and what isn't to shape the sims live weather. 

Rest assured that us so call "alleged pilots" make the connections with developers to pass on the needed info. I have worked with PMDG, Rotate, CoolSky, Leonardo, etc. to resolve issue with flight models. I'm an aircraft performance guru with experience from flight test during my USAF days. For one developer, their aircraft had excessive float and a low pitch attitude during landing. I reached out privately and passed some test info along with the appropriate behavior for that type during landing. I asked, what they had used for data and they gave me the unreliable airspeed charts. Right off the back, I knew what the problem was. Those unreliable charts are great because they provide accurate pitch and power settings. But, for approach, those charts are 10kts hot for obvious reasons. For every 5kts, you will see about a degree of pitch change for a given weight and configuration. They hadn't realized that and the tech person didn't explain it.

I do get that there are some people out there that will claim to have the expertise that they don't hold. I have come across them myself. In general, you will be able to confirm what a person is telling you based on the content of the conversation and the supporting data they provide.There are also people who should hold the expertise based on their position and they don't. Here are a couple of examples. In the USAF and biz aviation, I have done a lot of return to service flights. When aircraft are taken apart and then put back together, someone has to deem that the aircraft is air worthy. That's where I come in. So I'm preparing to do a functional check flight and running through the extended preflight. One of the service center mechanics came up on the flight deck and asked if I had the RADAR in standby. I replied yes. He then proceeded to lecture to me that I can't have the RADAR in standby because it's transmitting. He went on to tell me he was a avionics guy and is looking out for his people. I was shocked, but pulled up the AFM on my EFB and showed him the system description and the limitations sections for the RADAR. He then appeared shocked when the warning only applied when the RADAR was in the on position. Of all people, you would have  thought an avionics person would have known that. He did apologize and exited my flight deck. 

The second time, same service center. I departed out for a flight test and after putting the gear handle up, it took a long time for the gear handle light to extinguish. You see stuff like this all the time on these flights because they have literally taken everything apart. We decided to continue the profile knowing towards the end of the flight, we would have to configure for landing and check/adjust the AOA systems before stall and pusher checks. Once we adjusted the AOAs for 1.3vstall, we retracted the gear and cleaned up to prepare for the stall series. I recorded the gear handle light with my phone and it took 25 seconds before the light would go out. In the gulfstream, a light in the handle with the handle up is driven by the gear doors. Apparently, one appeared to be slow to close. After those checks were done, we brought it back and had some items to debrief. There was some spoiler and aileron rigging adjustments needed along with that gear handle light. I told the landing gear guy about the light and said it should be out in 16 seconds. He responded, there isn't a time for gear retraction. I was floored by this. Of course a heated debated started after that and then he stated if there is a number, it's a recommendation. Again, passed the system description on the EFB and he was shocked at the 16 seconds. I told him, yeah, I remember it because it's an odd number. They wanted to go in and check adjustments, but I wanted them to swing the gear. He claimed they did it the night before and I responded, they should have caught that issue. After an hour and a half of debating, they reluctantly agreed to swing, but asked for overtime for it. On the first retraction on jacks, you clearly saw that all gear retracted quickly, but that right main door stayed fully open for 20 seconds before going closed. The right door timer valve was at it's full adjustable position and out of limits. Again, these guys should have known the limit and the issue right off. Later that guy apologized along with the service center lead.   

Any who, it is good to verify and listen carefully to what a person claims. You know the saying, if it quacks like a duck and walks like a duck........ Never mind the nay sayers, they are every where. One of the big indicators is they won't provide data and quick to attack when questioned. I used to keep up an aviation blog and it's still by my name when ever I post in these forums. A person can always click my link and see the type of aviation that I do.

Rick

8 hours ago, tymk said:

There's one thing I've noticed and would like to ask you to verify, if possible. I was checking out the new wind/gust behavior at EGHE (Scilly Isles/St Mary's Airport), which had some "nice" weather for that kind of thing. (BTW, if you haven't already, check out Superspud's rendition, it's one of those "can't believe it's freeware" add-ons...)

I got tossed about pretty badly by the winds there, but nothing I could complain about. As I was landing, however, I noticed some weird behavior. I was testing in the JPL Cessna 152 mod and the default Cessna 172 (Classic) and I noticed some issues with rudder authority. So, I started digging and deeper and found that I would (randomly, it seems) lose all rudder authority on the ground while taxiing at different speeds.

Could I ask someone to just taxi around the field and accelerate, decelerate, etc. while turning to see if this can be replicated?

I don't know if this is what you are talking about but it's hard coded into the flightmodel file that the front nose wheel steering becomes less effective as your taxi speed increases. I don't know if this is realistic or not, but it seems unlikely to me that at just 6 knots it becomes so much less responsive so you can no longer follow the taxi lines around a turn. It can be adjusted and I do so. Look for the lines max_speed_full_steering =  and max_speed_decreasing_steering = and adjust the values which are in feet per second. 

Edited October 6, 20223 yr by cbcdesign

I used  to  be able to see on the fly any changes to the flight_model.cfg file by using the Dev Mode overhead menu. But they changed the way that menu is arranged. I'm pretty sure it still can done, I just don't know how any more. It helped to see the difference instantly when changing the numbers in the file. Instead of  closing down MSFS and rebooting.

2 minutes ago, cbcdesign said:

I don't know if this is what you are talking about but it's hard coded into the flightmodel file that the front nose wheel steering becomes less effective as your taxi speed increases. I don't know if this is realistic or not, but it seems unlikely to me that at just 6 knots it becomes so much less responsive so you can no longer follow the taxi lines around a turn. It can be adjusted and I do so. Look for the lines max_speed_full_steering =  and max_speed_decreasing_steering = and adhjust the values. 

I've just finished work for today, so I can do some more testing 😉 I'm aware of the two parameters and I experimented with them a bit at one point, but this seems to be a different problem. When it kicks in, the plane simply won't turn in one direction, even if I accelerate or gun the throttle to get airflow over the rudder. So, it seems to be a friction issue as noted by eslader (preventing any lateral movement of the the nose-wheel), or perhaps a combination of the two problems (friction + exaggerated loss of nose-wheel steering response).

9 hours ago, andy1252 said:

Still never really felt any sim can approach realism unless you've got your whole desk/sim/chair/cockpit or whatever mounted on a hydraulic and vibrating platform,

Man.  I follow a bunch of aviation and sim aviation stuff on Instagram, and some outfit has been advertising motion bases. It'd be tempting if the cheapest 6DOF one wasn't like 9 grand (and I suspect you don't start getting quality until the 20k one).