16 minutes ago, altenae said:

I am wondering 50FPS on what monitor ?

LG 38” Ultrawide, running at 3840x1600 120hz G-sync enabled. The test was done on this monitor.

I do have and 2018 55” OLED TV 60hz and with DLSS frame generation it created a lot of VSync issues. 

Edited October 15, 20223 yr by TravelRunner404

1 hour ago, altenae said:

I am wondering 50FPS on what monitor ?
What kind of refresh rate is the monitor ?
You cannot expect 50 FPS to be stutter free all the time on for example a 60HZ monitor. !!!.
There will be always frame dropping when FPS are not matching the refresh rate of a monitor without gsync and other solutions in this regard.

 

Deleted

Edited October 15, 20223 yr by V1ROTA7E
slow internet

5 hours ago, TravelRunner404 said:

I loaded the Fenix at iniscene KLAX with 300 TLOD and AI. It’s not smooth at all. The dev mode counter says 25 FPS and capframex captures 50 FPS but it does not feel like it. The 1% lows are still bad. Bashing up against a CPU limite full throttle still stutters. It will not feel like a GPU limited 45-50 FPS. And yes, there is very clear artifacting when you pan around

for me (RTX 3090 - 4K -HP Reverb G2 VR - i9900K @ 4.7 GHz) all this means before considering an RTX 4090:

save those 2.000,-  and instead upgrade next spring to either Intel Metro Lake or AMD Ryzen 9 - 7900x3D. that should always increase performance and provide additional "real" fps, while Nvidia is only faking it. 😊

Okay. My last testing and I am done. Only doing this because Varjo needs to update something so flying is a little eh right now. 

The image below of this testing basically shows the crux of MSFS in SU11 and how it has always been. CPU limited equals a hot mess. GPU limited 30 FPS or above all is good. Frame Generation or DLSS 3 will not change this! 

The test was iniscene KLAX, default C172 G1000, ultra 200/200, AIG traffic injection for two and Online live for the other two in MSFS, no multiplayer. Live weather and it was gloomy. Five minute recording taxi from gate to runway and take off. 

https://ibb.co/w0v6V29

Top Bar is turning DLAA resolution up to 200%, yes, even at 7680x3200 the 4090 produces 32ms GPU frame times. It was 32.8 FPS average. But look at all that blue. Blue is smooth when it comes to variances. My CPU was right around 25-30ms. Keeping the GPU ms greater than the mainthread ms is what gives you blue bars. Same as it’s always been. 

The three remaining graphs were using frame generation. The top one is with live traffic the bottom two are with AIG injected. The live traffic is easier on the CPU but look at all that yellow and orange overall. I could not get the CPU lower than the GPU. The worst part? Turning on frame generation adds time to the CPU ms! Don’t know why but it does. so the situation just gets worse and even though you have a higher average FPS the variation is terrible. Frame generation as far as I can tell will not relieve the CPU in any fashion and magically make you GPU limited at some wild frame rates. In fact it will make low FPS bottlenecks slightly worse. 
 

If the scene is stable it does feel snappier. Sitting at the gate CPU limited the panning is snappier but as soon as you start moving the variances in frame times get bad. If you are at 50-60 FPS and fine with the AI generated artifacts on a 120hz monitor, sure, you might like the improved smoothness bc at those frame rates the variances won’t be as noticeable. Zooming around in external view with a military jet it’s probably kind of nice. 
 

I think a lot of people on here are thinking, hoping and wondering if frame generation will off load 5-10ms from the CPU and deliver big airport, PMDG/Fenix smoothness at 30 FPS. I don’t see it doing that. I at least can’t get it to do that on my end. 

9 minutes ago, TravelRunner404 said:

I think a lot of people on here are thinking, hoping and wondering if frame generation will off load 5-10ms from the CPU and deliver big airport, PMDG/Fenix smoothness at 30 FPS. I don’t see it doing that. I at least can’t get it to do that on my end. 

This needs new CPU’s 

35 minutes ago, TravelRunner404 said:

I think a lot of people on here are thinking, hoping and wondering if frame generation will off load 5-10ms from the CPU and deliver big airport, PMDG/Fenix smoothness at 30 FPS. I don’t see it doing that.

would be interesting to repeat the test, this time only changing CPU clock speeds and then compare to DLSS 3 and Frame generation techniques. according to your test results, those 120 fps with MSFS shown at the 4090 press event were all "fake" i.e. snake oil because they don't increase fluidity, especially in CPU heavy situations. now we know why Jensen didn't use the dev.mode inherent fps counter, but their own counter showing artificially derived intermediate/interlaced frames.

Edited October 15, 20223 yr by turbomax

37 minutes ago, Ianrivaldosmith said:

This needs new CPU’s 

obvviously more so than Frame generation. that's why i  have just switched around my upgrade priorities for 2023:

1) new 5--7 nnm CPU

2) only then new GPU.

after all that I have seen so far courtesy @travelrunner404, suddenly even the next generation AMD GPUs might become an option unexpectedly, now that it appears rasterization improvement still rules over artificial, i.e. useless frame interpolation gimmicks which AMD obviously won't have, perhaps due to some Nvidia patents. that would explain this massive focus on Nvidia's new exclusive features - AI based DLSS 3 and Frame interpolation versus AMD's more traditional pixel/image interpolation techniques.

Edited October 15, 20223 yr by turbomax

38 minutes ago, TravelRunner404 said:

The test was iniscene KLAX, default C172

fantastic job, greatly appreciated! I think I am speaking for all of us here. though a test with a complex airliner would be even more interesting.

2 hours ago, turbomax said:

though a test with a complex airliner would be even more interesting.

Don’t disagree but the airliners do have some issues going on in SU11 so it could come out that performance was affected. I did taxi and take off with the Fenix at one point and it was more or less the same. I can only imagine the performance was less. 

In a situation where you have a solid 60 FPS and the CPU is at say 10-15ms or whatever then I think it would likely add some fluidity and make it 120hz. Of course the artifacts are another issue.
 

The thing I think we were hoping for Is that it would create headroom for the CPU so you could crank things up at the hot spots. It’s not doing that in my tests at all. If the CPU is choking to death at 27 FPS it’s not creating any type of fluidity at “57 fps”

I have no doubt someone will load this up with the default F15 out in the Mexico desert on a 144 FPS monitor and swear frame gen is amazing.  If anyone is selling that “things are much smoother” at KJFK or KATL or KSFO with 28 base FPS I would politely ask for them to run CaptureFrameX and prove the timings and that they are CPU limited not GPU  

 

3 hours ago, turbomax said:

those 120 fps with MSFS shown at the 4090 press event were all "fake"

38 minutes ago, TravelRunner404 said:

The thing I think we were hoping for Is that it would create headroom for the CPU so you could crank things up at the hot spots. It’s not doing that in my tests at all. If the CPU is choking to death at 27 FPS it’s not creating any type of fluidity at “57 fps”

Is it really that bad? To the point where you think an RTX 4090 or entire PC upgrade is not worth it right now if smoothness is what we search for? An honest, direct answer would be appreciated.

41 minutes ago, TravelRunner404 said:

If anyone is selling that “things are much smoother” at KJFK or KATL or KSFO with 28 base FPS I would politely ask for them to run CaptureFrameX and prove the timings and that they are CPU limited not GPU  

I doubt I will be the one trying to sell that, lol. Just got CaptFrameX - such a great tool! As if I wasn't fps-focused enough 🙂 The tool also gives some useful stats like smooth %, stuttering and 1% lows with nice graphs. I'll probably nerd out completely with this one over the next few days. 

1 hour ago, steve310002 said:

Is it really that bad? To the point where you think an RTX 4090 or entire PC upgrade is not worth it right now if smoothness is what we search for? An honest, direct answer would be appreciated.

It's never a bad idea if you have the money, you will always be at the cutting edge of technology, I would without a doubt but I recently spent 4k on an upgrade and have the 3080 ti so I just can't justify at that price, I'd probably pay 2k down the track for a 4090

so it seems asobo REALLY need to get this main thread BS sorted out by optimizing.

2 hours ago, Brandon01110 said:

so it seems asobo REALLY need to get this main thread BS sorted out by optimizing.

is, has been and will be an ongoing process since day one.

This is a great video and explains DLSS3 well

 

(3) Fake Frames or Big Gains? - Nvidia DLSS 3 Analyzed - YouTube

 

Wayne