Iris PC-21

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

Planes are too quiet from a distance in MSFS, I can hear a plane from a couple miles away easily.
 

Edited October 31, 2022 by Alpine Scenery

[Moron 64]

12 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

What can you do with the FMS?  Is it just point A to B or can you load procedures from Navigraph data etc?

From the Iris PC-21 manual:

"FLIGHT MANAGEMENT SYSTEM (FMS) - While the aircraft uses the CMC Flight Management System, due to technical limitations, we have a modified FMS based on the MSFS 747 unit."

 

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by hobart escin

[Moron 64]

Having purchased this now, my initial findings are that this is certainly not on par with a DCS-level study sim by any stretch of the imagination in terms of systems modeling.   A lot of systems have not been modeled; symbology on the HUD can appear outside of the combiner glass due to "technical limitations."   No environmental control system modeled (i.e. cabin pressurization); FMS is stock MSFS2020 which of course is c-r-a-p.  

Flight modeling-wise, aircraft performance is actually pretty good.  There are questionable spin characteristics according to some, mainly in use of recovery technique in the Iris Sim vs. that of the real aircraft.  Power Management System that is on the real PC-21 is not modeled on the Iris Sim aircraft and they humbly suggest you instead simply enable autorudder in MSFS2020.   🙄

Really depends on what you're looking for in a MSFS2020 add-on and whether your reference datum is a DCS level study-sim product.   I don't hate the IRIS PC-21, but not sure if I'll ever love it.   Overall, Iris Simulations is sorta in the middle between a Carenado product and a DCS aircraft:  Not total c-r-a-p but also not the ultimate realism type add-on.  

Is Iris better than the offings from India Foxtrot Echo?  Hmmmm, that is subject to debate.  

Edited October 31, 2022 by hobart escin

[lupedelupe 315]

Is there a way to hide the pilot figure (apart from dragging the weight to zero, which puts the covers in pace)? 

[Alpine Scenery 1,609]

It feels like a lot of aircraft spin too easily, including the c310 by Milviz. That said, it's hard to say without being a pilot of said aircraft, but it seems MSFS is a lot more dangerous than real life flying (which is also dangerous, just not as much).

 

[Matchstick 1,886]

5 hours ago, hobart escin said:

Having purchased this now, my initial findings are that this is certainly not on par with a DCS-level study sim by any stretch of the imagination in terms of systems modeling.   A lot of systems have not been modeled; symbology on the HUD can appear outside of the combiner glass due to "technical limitations."   No environmental control system modeled (i.e. cabin pressurization); FMS is stock MSFS2020 which of course is c-r-a-p.  

Flight modeling-wise, aircraft performance is actually pretty good.  There are questionable spin characteristics according to some, mainly in use of recovery technique in the Iris Sim vs. that of the real aircraft.  Power Management System that is on the real PC-21 is not modeled on the Iris Sim aircraft and they humbly suggest you instead simply enable autorudder in MSFS2020.   🙄

Really depends on what you're looking for in a MSFS2020 add-on and whether your reference datum is a DCS level study-sim product.   I don't hate the IRIS PC-21, but not sure if I'll ever love it.   Overall, Iris Simulations is sorta in the middle between a Carenado product and a DCS aircraft:  Not total c-r-a-p but also not the ultimate realism type add-on.  

Is Iris better than the offings from India Foxtrot Echo?  Hmmmm, that is subject to debate.  

Was anyone REALLY expecting a DCS level aircraft - that's a sim that specialises in systems modelling to the exception of other features (the planes for that also cost more than twice as much as this one).

A generalist sim like MSFS is never really going to match that.

Edited October 31, 2022 by Matchstick

[Moron 64]

48 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

Was anyone REALLY expecting a DCS level aircraft - that's a sim that specialises in systems modelling to the exception of other features (the planes for that also cost more than twice as much as this one).

A generalist sim like MSFS is never really going to match that.

No, I suppose not.   It would've been nice if Iris had made perhaps just a little more effort system-wise here.   Even stock Asobo aircraft have at least a rudimentary cabin pressurization system and core avionics.   Advising customers to use MSFS2020's autorudder assist in lieu of simulating a PC-21's PMS is pretty questionable though. 

Again, everything depends on user expectations.   I personally appreciate someone who owns a product being upfront and candid about the features without being biased either way. 

Edited October 31, 2022 by hobart escin

[mrueedi 702]

9 hours ago, hobart escin said:

Overall, Iris Simulations is sorta in the middle between a Carenado product and a DCS aircraft

Yes, but don't forget, the price is at or below Carenado level, so the PC-21 is providing excellent value also vs a DCS plane.

I like this information about the real PC-21:

https://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/data/document/Pilatus-Aircraft-Ltd-PC-21-Brochure.pdf

Interesting, that a pilot career on the PC-21 basically skips the fast-jet-trainer part. From basic training, you continue with the fighter lead-in training (skip the BAE Hawk-phase so to say) before changing directly to the frontline fighters.

Also interesting, that the real PC-21 has configurable and adjustable avionics and cockpits that mock the actual frontline fighter the pilot trains for.

 

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by mrueedi

[mrueedi 702]

2 hours ago, hobart escin said:

Advising customers to use MSFS2020's autorudder assist in lieu of simulating a PC-21's PMS is pretty questionable though.

Why invent the wheel a second time if that feature exactly matches the system in the real PC-21?

[bobcat999 8,444]

4 hours ago, hobart escin said:

No, I suppose not.   It would've been nice if Iris had made perhaps just a little more effort system-wise here.   Even stock Asobo aircraft have at least a rudimentary cabin pressurization system and core avionics.   Advising customers to use MSFS2020's autorudder assist in lieu of simulating a PC-21's PMS is pretty questionable though. 

Again, everything depends on user expectations.   I personally appreciate someone who owns a product being upfront and candid about the features without being biased either way. 

I agree within reason relative to the price point, but hopefully, I think Iris will develop this at least a little bit more with a number of updates.

There is a new developer about to launch the V-22 Osprey, and a lot of systems on the MFD aren't fully functional, but they have plans to gradually upgrade it over time.
As you say, I don't mind if developers are upfront about it.  Lets face it - you can wait years for a fully finished product to arrive (if their is such a thing).

I would rather buy a flyable early release and get the gradual updates and improvements for it while I am enjoying it rather than wait years fur a fully finished product, as long as the developers stick to their part of the bargain.

Unfortunately, history isn't always a good indicator of this.  Milviz are well respected for example, but I bought the Milviz Porter - still waiting for my free upgrade after buying 'early access'!  

[Moron 64]

Appears that the Iris PC-21 HUD gets wet inside the cockpit when it rains, making it unreadable in instrument conditions (this according to dialog exchange on the Iris Discord channel.)   Developer responded with, "lol, yeah, that's the limitation with XML gauges. We're working on a HTML HUD, but for the moment, use the F-18"   

 

Default F-18 HUD also gets 'wet' and unreadable when it rains, btw. 

I just can't deal with this kind of mentality.   Bang, erase, lesson learned - Iris hasn't changed much since the old days (sigh).   India Foxtrot Echo, count me in.  

 

Edited October 31, 2022 by hobart escin

[ryanbatc 12,820]

6 minutes ago, hobart escin said:

Appears that the Iris PC-21 HUD gets wet inside the cockpit when it rains, making it unreadable in instrument conditions (this according to dialog exchange on the Iris Discord channel.)   Developer responded with, "lol, yeah, that's the limitation with XML gauges. We're working on a HTML HUD, but for the moment, use the F-18"   

Default F-18 HUD also gets 'wet' and unreadable when it rains, btw. 

I just can't deal with this kind of mentality.   Bang, erase, lesson learned - Iris hasn't changed much since the old days (sigh).   India Foxtrot Echo, count me in.  

 

Not to "rain" on your parade (hahah) but the M346 also seems to blur the hud when it rains.  I'm not sure if this the same bug or not

[JaseMelbo 386]

3 hours ago, hobart escin said:

Appears that the Iris PC-21 HUD gets wet inside the cockpit when it rains, making it unreadable in instrument conditions (this according to dialog exchange on the Iris Discord channel.)   Developer responded with, "lol, yeah, that's the limitation with XML gauges. We're working on a HTML HUD, but for the moment, use the F-18"   

 

Default F-18 HUD also gets 'wet' and unreadable when it rains, btw. 

I just can't deal with this kind of mentality.   Bang, erase, lesson learned - Iris hasn't changed much since the old days (sigh).   India Foxtrot Echo, count me in.  

 

Not sure you've much to gripe about when the developer tells you what this issue is and how they intend to fix it.

Jase

[Moron 64]

53 minutes ago, JaseMelbo said:

Not sure you've much to gripe about when the developer tells you what this issue is and how they intend to fix it.

Jase

All I got when I went Trick or Treating this year was a bunch of Tootsie Rolls and red licorice.   Also, bubble gum that I'm pretty sure people had leftover from LAST Halloween.   I guess I'm just mad at the world in general.   

Edited October 31, 2022 by hobart escin

[Rene_Feijen 125]

Bought the Iris P21, flies delightfull. I only do not understand the airbrake: I see no airbrake switch or lever, cannot find it in the manual, mapped it to an Bravo axis, and it works if I look outside view, and also brakes when it has to brake, and vice versa, but the amber Airbrake indicator stays on as soon as I use the airbrake, even when switched off?