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Noel

How much 'stuttering' do you experience in MSFS?

In a typical 1-2 hour flight how many instances of stuttering can you detect?  

112 members have voted

This poll is closed to new votes
  1. 1. In a typical 1-2 hour flight how many instances of stuttering can you detect?

    • 0-3
      72
    • 4-6
      18
    • 7-10
      7
    • Greater than 10
      15
  2. 2. Do you lock frames?

    • Yes, thru RTSS
      6
    • Yes, thru NCP
      11
    • Yes, thru in-sim Vsync
      61
    • Yes, thru Gsync
      5
    • Yes, thru Freesync
      0
    • No, I don't lock frames
      29
  3. 3. What display resolution?

    • 1080p
      24
    • 1440p
      53
    • 4K
      29
    • Not listed here
      6

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  • Poll closed on 10/31/2022 at 08:35 PM

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Drop resolution to 1440p, 4k not worth it since any 4k display upscales internally anyways.
Wonder what you get in 1440p?

 


AMD 5800x | Nvidia 3080 (12gb) | 64gb ram

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35 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Drop resolution to 1440p, 4k not worth it since any 4k display upscales internally anyways.
Wonder what you get in 1440p?

 

Not sure how good 1440p would look on my 77" OLED though. Never tried it. Besides - what would be the point? The 4090 is more than capable of rendering in 4K. 

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AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D | MSI Gaming Trio X RTX 4090 | G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5-6200 32-38-38-30 32GB | Gigabyte X670 AORUS ELITE AX | WD Black SN850 2TB SSD

“Intensify the forward batteries. I don’t want anything to get through”

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I understand your thinking and a lot of people think that way. Was just wondering, because DLSS reduces visual quality more than 1440p does (in my estimation). The issue is the source objects in the game are LOD'd too low to render at 4k, unless you are very very close to a very high resolution texture in the game, hence sight seeing rather than flying. The resolvability of the ground textures aren't rendered in a resolvability of 4k either when you are in motion, they are highly compressed, as the trees aren't either unless you were using custom modeled trees. For buildings, same thing, the processing in MSFS is too heavy for flying for 4k to help much at any speed partly because of the LOD system, it might help if you are in a hot air balloon (not sure never tested), that only leaves 4k affecting AA in all honesty.

Essentially, you are already upscaling even in Native 4k, because the pixel and texture definition being output in the game engine isn't matching the actual 4k resolution, except for the anti-aliasing differences (reduction of edge fringing).

It can be proven with screenshots by using an image to show this by factual comparisons of downscaling the same scene from a close up, but I don't want to upset anyone that loves their 4k... The close up downscaled will pass a basic resolvability test, the original screenshot taken in motion will not.

In all truth, you may be getting a bit more AA benefit than most at 77" with that particular TV, but for my TV it's not much benefit.
 

Edited by Alpine Scenery
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AMD 5800x | Nvidia 3080 (12gb) | 64gb ram

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35 minutes ago, Alpine Scenery said:

Drop resolution to 1440p, 4k not worth it since any 4k display upscales internally anyways.
Wonder what you get in 1440p?

 

Not sure how good 1440p would look on my 77" OLED though. Never tried it. Besides - what would be the point? The 4090 is more than capable of rendering in 4K. 


AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D | MSI Gaming Trio X RTX 4090 | G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5-6200 32-38-38-30 32GB | Gigabyte X670 AORUS ELITE AX | WD Black SN850 2TB SSD

“Intensify the forward batteries. I don’t want anything to get through”

dYn55y0_d.jpg?maxwidth=520&shape=thumb&f

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On a test flight with that RTSS method. Plane is FBW A320. Not so convinced about it to be honest.... Have to try next time that 1/2 vsync thing let's say with 100hz refresh rate. 


Tapani Österberg

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1 hour ago, Virtpilot said:

On a test flight with that RTSS method. Plane is FBW A320. Not so convinced about it to be honest.... Have to try next time that 1/2 vsync thing let's say with 100hz refresh rate. 

Exactly what did you configure for your not so convincing test?  Did you duplicate what I presented:  60Hz refresh, adaptive 1/2 refresh? If you didn't go back and try it.  The real plus for this method is the ideal frametime variance which in this instance is effectively zero--this is what equates to ultra-smooth animation.  If there are other issues causing "stutters" per se, this isn't going to have much impact on those. Of all methods I've tested now this is the only one that delivers the vaunted zero frametime variance.

Here is a simple graphic illustration for those who aren't familiar of frame rate, versus frame time variance--both have a frame rate of 10, while the first example has a frametime variance of zero the seconcd does not:  the 10FPS is for the sake of making the illustration less unwealdy:

_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____  ULTRA-SMOOTH at 10FPS (pretend it's 60!)

____ ______ ____ ____ ______ ___ ___ _______ _____ ________  NOT ULTRA SMOOTH at 10FPS (pretend it's 60!)

Again:  stutters from inability to maintain the set frame lock due to overtaxing of the mainthread or GPU is an entirely different issue and this method is only presented to demonstrate effectively zero frametime variance which becomes the pathway to maximum smooth animation for the frame rate you're using.  A truly Holy Grail might be a frame rate perhaps of 60 but with a frametime variance of zero.  This would only ever be needed to improve ultra-nearfield intervals during taxi where you are moving past objects very close to the plane at 25knots or what have you.  When you witness true zero frametime variance even at 30FPS the impression is ultra fluid and outside of those very nearfield objects you would never be able to tell the difference, and that includes even IanRS!!  He'll never buy this because he's convinced it's all about frame and refresh rate.

 


Noel

System:  7800x3D, Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, Noctua NH-U12A, MSI Pro 650-P WiFi, G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000, WD NVMe 2Tb x 1, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 1, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM1000W PSU, Win11 Home, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Case, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync for near zero Frame Time Variance achieving ultra-fluid animation at lower frame rates.

Aircraft used in A Pilot's Life V2:  PMDG 738, Aerosoft CRJ700, FBW A320nx, WT 787X

 

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Until the last update I had the smoothest game ever.

Now its a stutterfest and the stutter gremlins know when Im in the landing flare because thats when they hit the most. And so a nice landing turns into a PowerPoint presentation.

I really hope the next update fixes this.

I begin to chew my fingernails as the update begins. What will be broken this time 😷

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9 hours ago, Cpt_Piett said:

Just to show there are situations in MSFS where it's difficult to get smooth performance with decent hardware.

It's relatively common to keep loading more and more content/features and eventually end up where you are here so not very surprised really.  With my old 9900K I've decided using Seasons is more than it can handle.  Fortunately it's coping w/ RT Online Traffic quite well.  I'm hoping a new CPU will allow me to add back Seasons.

I just landed PMDG 738 at KSFO in lots of clouds and had one minor stutter right at touchdown and not another hint all the way to the gate.  I'm really impressed and now exceedingly convinced what matters most is getting frametime variance to zero.

 


Noel

System:  7800x3D, Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, Noctua NH-U12A, MSI Pro 650-P WiFi, G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000, WD NVMe 2Tb x 1, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 1, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM1000W PSU, Win11 Home, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Case, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync for near zero Frame Time Variance achieving ultra-fluid animation at lower frame rates.

Aircraft used in A Pilot's Life V2:  PMDG 738, Aerosoft CRJ700, FBW A320nx, WT 787X

 

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it maybe old, but it's still a classic Ferrari ,  for me HT off and a 5.3 OC 😀


ROG Crossair Hero X670e , 7800X3D, TUF 4090 , X4 NVME's. OS on a 2TB 980 Pro , MSFS on " 2TB WD Black , G Skill F5 32 GB RAM  6000 ( allegedly) Corsair RM1000 PSU, Artic Freezer iii 360 AIO  . Phanteks P600s Case ,TCL QM8B 50" 120/144 Hz ( allegedly ) TV, Warthog Stick and TCA Captains throttle ( full pack) Logitech / Saitek Rudder Pedals , Streamdeck XL / Streamdeck +

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I had a setup of 60hz monitor refresh, RTSS frame cap at 30 and had that front edge sync turned on. The result was rather disappointing... I have now set up monitor still at 60hz and from NCP 1/2 vsync on. Dumped the RTSS. Initial test looked promising indeed. I will do proper test flight tomorrow with it.

Edited by Virtpilot

Tapani Österberg

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1 hour ago, Noel said:

I'm really impressed and now exceedingly convinced what matters most is getting frametime variance to zero.

And I've just realized that this is exceedingly difficult with DLSS3. So there's that. 


AMD Ryzen 9 7950X3D | MSI Gaming Trio X RTX 4090 | G.Skill Trident Z5 Neo RGB DDR5-6200 32-38-38-30 32GB | Gigabyte X670 AORUS ELITE AX | WD Black SN850 2TB SSD

“Intensify the forward batteries. I don’t want anything to get through”

dYn55y0_d.jpg?maxwidth=520&shape=thumb&f

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13 minutes ago, Cpt_Piett said:

And I've just realized that this is exceedingly difficult with DLSS3. So there's that. 

Do you use a Gsync display Piett?  I've been hoping someone could do this test but no responses so far:

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/626251-anyone-measured-frametime-variance-w-gsync-ultimate/

20 minutes ago, Virtpilot said:

I had a setup of 60hz monitor refresh, RTSS frame cap at 30 and had that front edge sync turned on. The result was rather disappointing... I have now set up monitor still at 60hz and from NCP 1/2 vsync on. Dumped the RTSS. Initial test looked promising indeed. I will do proper test flight tomorrow with it.

Can you post a screenshot of your MSFS settings, and what your hardware settings also are?  Are you using any other kind of Vsync, Freesync, Gsync?  I've done identical tests now using In-sim Vsync, NCP Frame lock, NCP Vsync, and none can duplicate this out of RTSS.  This is a short capture but it's this way always now unless my main thread is overloaded:

spacer.png


Noel

System:  7800x3D, Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, Noctua NH-U12A, MSI Pro 650-P WiFi, G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000, WD NVMe 2Tb x 1, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 1, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM1000W PSU, Win11 Home, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Case, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync for near zero Frame Time Variance achieving ultra-fluid animation at lower frame rates.

Aircraft used in A Pilot's Life V2:  PMDG 738, Aerosoft CRJ700, FBW A320nx, WT 787X

 

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I've been away from the hobby for 4 months and just a few days ago, did a completely clean install (although MSFS was not installed, I found and deleted many old MSFS related files from various locations on my PC first).

I don't even know if I am on SU10 or SU11 beta 😁   but I can say I have the most fluid, stutter-free, high FPS gameplay I've ever had in MSFS since release.  With my humble GTX1080Ti, I've been able to turn on a number of graphics effects that I could previously not run, if I wanted a consistent 40+ FPS.. (Eg. ambient occlusion).

It seems a lot has happened in terms of code progression and development under the hood of MSFS, in the last 4 months. 😎

Edited by JYW

Bill

UK LAPL-A (Formerly NPPL-A and -M)

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Okay, made a flight with the settings of 60hz monitor refresh rate and NCP 1/2 vsync. And it was very, very good. Really smooth, some hickups as I flew to Gatwick using the excellent freeware scenery from Flightsim.to. But I guess everybody got hickups in there.... I have disabled the Gsync (Gsync compatible monitor so not a real Gsync) and the adaptive vsync from the monitor settings. MSFS settings i got most on high, some are on ultra like the clouds, trees, texture synthesis (?), TLOD 175. My GPU is GeForce RTX 2060 Super and the CPU is Ryzen 7 3700X. 


Tapani Österberg

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2 hours ago, Virtpilot said:

Okay, made a flight with the settings of 60hz monitor refresh rate and NCP 1/2 vsync. And it was very, very good. Really smooth, some hickups as I flew to Gatwick using the excellent freeware scenery from Flightsim.to. But I guess everybody got hickups in there.... I have disabled the Gsync (Gsync compatible monitor so not a real Gsync) and the adaptive vsync from the monitor settings. MSFS settings i got most on high, some are on ultra like the clouds, trees, texture synthesis (?), TLOD 175. My GPU is GeForce RTX 2060 Super and the CPU is Ryzen 7 3700X. 

NCP Adaptive 1/2 sync is a very good 2nd choice for smoothness, but not quite what RTSS limit offers.  A very good alternative because it does not also involve a tearline that RTSS unfortunately does.   What plane did you fly in? 


Noel

System:  7800x3D, Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut, Noctua NH-U12A, MSI Pro 650-P WiFi, G.SKILL Ripjaws S5 Series 32GB (2 x 16GB) 288-Pin PC RAM DDR5 6000, WD NVMe 2Tb x 1, Sabrent NVMe 2Tb x 1, RTX 4090 FE, Corsair RM1000W PSU, Win11 Home, LG Ultra Curved Gsync Ultimate 3440x1440, Phanteks Enthoo Pro Case, TCA Boeing Edition Yoke & TQ, Cessna Trim Wheel, RTSS Framerate Limiter w/ Edge Sync for near zero Frame Time Variance achieving ultra-fluid animation at lower frame rates.

Aircraft used in A Pilot's Life V2:  PMDG 738, Aerosoft CRJ700, FBW A320nx, WT 787X

 

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