Some approach plates that I can't figure out

[Guest timmus]

(1) On this RPLC Runway 02R approach are you really supposed to cross over the airfield first? What's the purpose of the downwind leg if your flight originated from a city to the south? https://164.214.2.62/products/digitalaero/t...ils_rwy_02r.pdf(2) This CYFB ILS Rwy 35 approach PDF shows that I can approach from EBDIG and AGDUB using a 15 DME arc. Fine. But why does the cross-section show a leg from TIBEG (on the localizer) that goes down the localizer then back up it for the approach? Why would I be using TIBEG as an IAF? https://164.214.2.62/products/digitalaero/t...sdme_rwy_35.pdf(3) How does one engage this PAIM Rwy 24 approach? The cross section suggests you start over the NDB, fly 057 up the runway heading, then double back again on the reciprocal for your approach (like #2). But the map has a 102/282 localizer intercept. This is confusing. https://164.214.2.62/products/digitalaero/t.../ndb_rwy_24.pdfTim

[Cessnaflyer 56]

>1) On this RPLC Runway 02R approach are you really supposed>to cross over the airfield first? What's the purpose of the>downwind leg if your flight originated from a city to the>south? Not exactly sure what you are talking about with a 'downwind leg' but to me it looks like there is terrain south, southwest of the airport so they have you track outbound on the VOR to the fix then turn to intercept the ILS>2) This CYFB ILS Rwy 35 approach PDF shows that I can>approach from EBDIG and AGDUB using a 15 DME arc. Fine. But>why does the cross-section show a leg from TIBEG (on the>localizer) that goes down the localizer then back up it for>the approach? Why would I be using TIBEG as an IAF?Because you can track outbound on the ILS approach and then procedure turn back to the approach if this is what your instruction is to do.>3) How does one engage this PAIM Rwy 24 approach? The cross>section suggests you start over the NDB, fly 057 up the runway>heading, then double back again on the reciprocal for your>approach (like #2). But the map has a 102/282 localizer>intercept. This is confusing.Again for this one it is track outbound do the procedure turn and then approach the airport

[mgh 89]

The general answers to your questions is because that's the published procedure. I don't know the logic behind these procedures but think I can interpret them.> (1) On this RPLC Runway 02R approach are you really supposed>to cross over the airfield first? What's the purpose of the>downwind leg if your flight originated from a city to the>south? > >https://164.214.2.62/products/digitalaero/t...ils_rwy_02r.pdf>There is a hold at CIA where aircraft will be stepped down by ATC and then pulled off from the bottom to follow the published approach. A pilot approaching from the south cannot make a direct approach under these conditions because of the obvious danger of collision. > (2) This CYFB ILS Rwy 35 approach PDF shows that I can>approach from EBDIG and AGDUB using a 15 DME arc. Fine. But>why does the cross-section show a leg from TIBEG (on the>localizer) that goes down the localizer then back up it for>the approach? Why would I be using TIBEG as an IAF?> >https://164.214.2.62/products/digitalaero/t...sdme_rwy_35.pdf>I think there are 3 approaches shown on this chart from EBDIG, AGDUB, and TIBEG. That from TIBEG starts by following radial R170, to not below 2000ft and then make a Standard Proceedure Turn to reverse direction so as to intercept the ILS. > (3) How does one engage this PAIM Rwy 24 approach? The cross>section suggests you start over the NDB, fly 057 up the runway>heading, then double back again on the reciprocal for your>approach (like #2). But the map has a 102/282 localizer>intercept. This is confusing.> >https://164.214.2.62/products/digitalaero/t.../ndb_rwy_24.pdf>The approach starts from a hold at the NDB then flying 057deg from it while descending to not less than 5000ft but then making a Standard Procedure Turn to reverse dirction to 237deg before initiating the final approach. What you say is the "102/282 localizer intercept" is the Standard Procedure Turn to reverse direction. This is an NDB approach so there is no localiser.>Tim

[Guest jrewing]

A procedure turn, holding pattern in lieu of a a procedure turn, a teardrop, or DME arc can be depicted on an approach chart, but this does not mean that all aircraft will be required to fly it as depicted. I've never flown any of these approaches, but one would assume that with the first two approaches, ATC could give you radar vectors to the intermediate approach course. The "full approach" is illustrated in case an aircraft had to fly the procedure on their own due to a radar outage or a communications failure. And in some cases, an approach provides a variety of entry points. The third approach you mentioned is different.>(3) How does one engage this PAIM Rwy 24 approach? The cross>section suggests you start over the NDB, fly 057 up the runway>heading, then double back again on the reciprocal for your>approach (like #2). But the map has a 102/282 localizer>intercept. This is confusing.As the previous comment noted, this is not a localizer approach. It is an NDB approach.This non-precision approach layout is pretty standard (aside from the note about a successful go around being improbable past the MAP) for the case where the navigation aid is located on the airport. There appears to be no approach radar, so you have to fly the full approach.In these cases, the navaid is both the initial approach fix and the missed approach point. In the days before GPS, you had to navigate over the navaid in order to know where you were, then fly outbound on the 057 degree bearing from the station for a couple of minutes. Next you'd turn to a heading of 102 degrees for a minute, then turn to a heading of 282 degrees and intercept the 237 bearing to the station. On the 237 bearing, begin descending to 3620'. There's no timing because there's no defined final approach fix and the missed approach point is the NDB. So you'd descend to 3620' on the final approach course and if you saw station passage on your Automatic Direction Finder without seeing the runway, you'd execute the missed approach pronto! Make sense?John

[Guest P3_Super_Bee]

Clark's approach is weird. Our pilots hated it, they couldn't figure out why it's that way. Maybe something left over from the Air Farce days. There is like no traffic there, execpt for about 4 hours in the weehours of the night when UPS is hoppin'. Civilian Commerical traffic is minimal, and the PAF have very little if anything going on most days there. Terrain there is a no factor, unless you are a total idiot. Note: Clark for those who don't know or didn't open the approach plates is RPLC.http://publish.hometown.aol.com/p3superb/i...s/sign_name.jpg