8 hours ago, Noel said:

Wouldn't it be grand if there was a turbulance effect slider?  I proposed it a long time ago on the MSFS forum:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/please-consider-adding-a-turbulence-slider/300063

I think we will see some of these things arrive when they have run out of bigger ticket items.

I agree, and you've gained another vote.

12 minutes ago, Amon1973 said:

I agree, and you've gained another vote.

I've been saying this for months. The arguments about whether the turbulence is real or not very convincing will run and run. The only solution to keep everyone satisfied is to provide an OPTION (slider/on-off button etc) just as there are hundreds of other options in MSFS. Imposing a parameter that is clearly way from perfect and in some opinions (mine included) completely off will just keep the arguments running ad infinitum. If you can set how many clouds there are, what time of day it is, where you depart and arrive and what aircraft you want to fly it seems almost childishly obvious that a turbulence option is just like all the other options, without which people would get very frustrated.

I simply don't understand why Asobo want to impose their flawed idea of what turbulence is on everyone.

Edited November 10, 20223 yr by robert young

38 minutes ago, robert young said:

The only solution to keep everyone satisfied is to provide an OPTION (slider/on-off button etc) just as there are hundreds of other options in MSFS. Imposing a parameter that is clearly way from perfect and in some opinions (mine included) completely off will just keep the arguments running ad infinitum. If you can set how many clouds there are, what time of day it is, where you depart and arrive and what aircraft you want to fly it seems almost childishly obvious that a turbulence option is just like all the other options, without which people would get very frustrated.

Indeed this has been discussed to death. With SU10 onwards with winds less than 3 knots or 0 knots greatly reduces the turbulence effect, given the constant user requests akin to what you're asking , this was what they said in the release notes:
https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/release-release-notes-1-27-21-0-sim-update-10/543606
Per feedback, turbulence & drafts have been reduced by 90% at 0kts wind speed and 50% at 1kts wind speed (no change above 3kts wind speed). turbulence and drafts have also been reduced by 50% at high altitudes

So certainly when in manual weather, in addition to being able to set up clouds etc you can also influence turbulence with wind speed settings.

As also has been discussed to death, the question then is what does it mean to "configure" live weather? Where does one draw the line in what is able to be enabled/disabled/controlled in live weather?, and how difficult does that become to implement and manage? I'm not sure what the good answer here is.

As to the original topic of this thread which I believe is about horizontal back & forth (i.e. yaw axis) I suspect it's more do with each individual aircraft's FM and how it's modeled, or a combination of FM + core sim aerodynamics, or just the latter alone. @Noel are you noticing this on all the aircraft you fly? And if so is the effect of varying degrees per aircraft or similar?
 

Edited November 10, 20223 yr by lwt1971

39 minutes ago, lwt1971 said:

Indeed this has been discussed to death.......

As to the original topic of this thread which I believe is about horizontal back & forth (i.e. yaw axis) I suspect it's more do with each individual aircraft's FM and how it's modeled, or a combination of FM + core sim aerodynamics. @Noel are you noticing this on all the aircraft you fly? And if so is the effect of varying degrees per aircraft or similar?
 

A given aircraft's flight model is 90% about how it responds to CONTROL inputs. The recently discussed weather and surface fluid dynamics and wind behaviour are a separate element of the sim. While there is an overlap in that certain aircraft will respond differently according to (mainly) size and inertia, the core part of a flight model is not really about anything other than how an aeroplane responds to pitch, roll and yaw inputs by the pilot in still air. That has to be as near to believable as possible before you need to worry about other influences.

Given that there is a long running discussion on this subject, I say again that the only solution is to give an option, just like all the other options that sim pilots expect, but even more so in this case as everyone seems to have a subjective view about what constitutes a believable turbulence model. It's no good Asobo saying they have reduced base turbulence to a certain percentage. To me it doesn't feel right and I have been flying powered and gliding aircraft since 1973 so I know what turbulence, great and small, looks and feels like.

Edited November 10, 20223 yr by robert young

1 hour ago, robert young said:

Given that there is a long running discussion on this subject, I say again that the only solution is to give an option, just like all the other options that sim pilots expect, but even more so in this case as everyone seems to have a subjective view about what constitutes a believable turbulence model. It's no good Asobo saying they have reduced base turbulence to a certain percentage. To me it doesn't feel right and I have been flying powered and gliding aircraft since 1973 so I know what turbulence, great and small, looks and feels like.

Yes yes many IRL pilots and sim-only pilots seem to have a gamut of opinions on what they think turbulence both great and small looks/feel like, that much is clear.

Bottom line for the sim as it is currently, the changes in SU10 are better than giving no control/influence at all. If Asobo have a way to provide a "slider" or allow users to set turbulence strength on a varying scale (all in manual weather of course) then yes even more ideal. But at least with SU10 onwards one can set winds to zero to get 90% reduction in turbulence and drafts.

But once again, the topic of this thread is side-to-side rocking (yaw) which doesn't seem to be related to turbulence as that can move aircraft around on all axes.
 

Edited November 10, 20223 yr by lwt1971

Not yet another " the turbulence is too much "thread. Next we will have a vote on bringing back "flying on rails behavior

".

32 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Not yet another " the turbulence is too much "thread. Next we will have a vote on bringing back "flying on rails behavior

".

I agree with you in principle, there's no going back to the "on rails" experience for me, either, but there's this one aspect they simply need to fix: this section in the previously linked video shows the exact issue.

2 hours ago, robert young said:

I simply don't understand why Asobo want to impose their flawed idea of what turbulence is on everyone.

I think the reason is that they just haven't got there yet.  They're busy with lots of other tasks, world updates, weather physics improvements, etc.   

1 hour ago, lwt1971 said:

But once again, the topic of this thread is side-to-side rocking (yaw) which doesn't seem to be related to turbulence as that can move aircraft around on all axes.
 

This. I don't think the turbulence is the issue.  Its had this twitchy side to side tail behavior since day one.  

14 minutes ago, tgsweat said:

This. I don't think the turbulence is the issue.  Its had this twitchy side to side tail behavior since day one.  

I have flown several aircraft in MSFS, the Carenado Mooney, The Arrow 3, The Kodiak, The Seminole, The Fenix A 320, and the Milvix 310. I have never had the tail "twitch" from side to side.  What am I doing wrong? 

I'll jump in there for a sec😝. Sd flyer brings up a good point because our perspective in sim is based on that fixed camera view that doesn't match what we feel and see between the aircraft and the body. That's just one of the apparent limitations in sim. As I go down the herky Jerky road with the fixed camera disclaimer, keep in mind that heavier than air aircraft have mass. For the most part, those pitch, roll, etc. moments are dampened out based on the aircraft and the strength of the winds/turbulence. This is why when ATC announces severe/moderate turbulence, we want to know the aircraft type that reported it. From there, I can decide what level of turbulence that is for my aircraft type. For example, a Cessna or similar GA aircraft reports moderate turbulence, I interpret that as light turbulence while flying a DC10. But, I have been in turbulence in the DC10 where the plane is jerky, I can't read instruments, can barely talk to ATC and fighting to climb or descend out of it. One of the best ways I can explain an aircraft flying through air is that it is out of control and off rails. We are constantly trimming and adding input to maintain attitude, heading and roll. For the most point yaw is controlled by the weather vane effect, yaw damp and roll spoilers, at least in my aircraft. An aircraft is so to speak hanging by a string and impacted by everything. I've actually watched the pitch trim adjust as a flight attendant walked from the rear end of the aircraft to the flight deck. It's one of those things you notice in your hours of boredom. As stated, you don't usually see the jerky movement about the axes. If you do, you are in some serious turbulence. I have seen rhythmic moments, especially when it's aggravated by certain certain fuel states and position. I have had that jerky vertical turbulence as if in a paint can shaker/mixer. I also believes it comes down to the difficult way turbulence is coded and the flight model of the aircraft. 

3 minutes ago, G550flyer said:

I'll jump in there for a sec😝. Sd flyer brings up a good point because our perspective in sim is based on that fixed camera view that doesn't match what we feel and see between the aircraft and the body. That's just one of the apparent limitations in sim. As I go down the herky Jerky road with the fixed camera disclaimer, keep in mind that heavier than air aircraft have mass. For the most part, those pitch, roll, etc. moments are dampened out based on the aircraft and the strength of the winds/turbulence. This is why when ATC announces severe/moderate turbulence, we want to know the aircraft type that reported it. From there, I can decide what level of turbulence that is for my aircraft type. For example, a Cessna or similar GA aircraft reports moderate turbulence, I interpret that as light turbulence while flying a DC10. But, I have been in turbulence in the DC10 where the plane is jerky, I can't read instruments, can barely talk to ATC and fighting to climb or descend out of it. One of the best ways I can explain an aircraft flying through air is that it is out of control and off rails. We are constantly trimming and adding input to maintain attitude, heading and roll. For the most point yaw is controlled by the weather vane effect, yaw damp and roll spoilers, at least in my aircraft. An aircraft is so to speak hanging by a string and impacted by everything. I've actually watched the pitch trim adjust as a flight attendant walked from the rear end of the aircraft to the flight deck. It's one of those things you notice in your hours of boredom. As stated, you don't usually see the jerky movement about the axes. If you do, you are in some serious turbulence. I have seen rhythmic moments, especially when it's aggravated by certain certain fuel states and position. I have had that jerky vertical turbulence as if in a paint can shaker/mixer. I also believes it comes down to the difficult way turbulence is coded and the flight model of the aircraft. 

^^^^THIS

As a long time "right-seater", when the plane was bouncing around and I asked the pilot about it, he seemed to think that we were smooth as glass. Eventually, I stopped commenting in the cockpit and just accepted all the aircraft movement as "normal". 

11 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have flown several aircraft in MSFS, the Carenado Mooney, The Arrow 3, The Kodiak, The Seminole, The Fenix A 320, and the Milvix 310. I have never had the tail "twitch" from side to side.  What am I doing wrong? 

You aren't doing anything wrong. Cpt_piet posted a video on the first page that shows the behavior we are talking about.  

@robert young have you chance, explored the effects of the new flight model parameters "fuselage_rigidity", "fuselage_inertia", and "fuselage_lateral_cx"? This, at least in the SDK, are designed to replace the former ESP "side force" parameters.

 These elements seem to support a new modeling for the effect of lateral wind forces.

1 hour ago, Bobsk8 said:

I have never had the tail "twitch" from side to side.  What am I doing wrong? 

Whatever you're doing, keep doing it that way 😉 And feel lucky your aircraft don't have that behaviour.