Satellite imagery streaming for X-Plane

[gkkes 13]

I read this entire thread with interest.
Being an old fogey, I recall during the early FS years a scheme called Eureka. I'm guessing 1995.
Streaming scenery isn't new.

Looking at the changes in XP12, all new effects are encoded into a new raster atom layer that will include:  elevation, sea_level, soundscape and Seasons (spr1, spr2, sum1, sum2, fal1, fal2, win1 & win2).

Values for each element will include:  bpp, flags, width, height & scale too.

The good news is that OscarPilote will update his Ortho4XP so that existing XP11 tiles can display correctly in 12 with small modifications. Work on O4XP won't continue in earnest until Laminar (Ben Supnick) has completed his work on the scenery display methodology.
Consideration is also being given to .ktx2 file compression. This offers 6 fold lossless compression compared to current filesizes so will definitely be of value to any streaming application. Local storage also.
As a tubeliner simmer but PPL holder, I am content with current scenery available, however I can envisage an update that interrogates individual flight plans, IFR generally in my case, which considers cruise flight level and only loads maximum resolution scenery at below say, 3000'. RVR would necessarily also contribute to visibility. Certainly old "technology" insofar as LOD/visual range...

Edited November 17, 2022 by gkkes

[gkkes 13]

What I haven't read here is any reference to OSM.
As I understand it, much of the 3d world outside airport boundaries are being served by Open Street Mapping. They have competent editing tools and are pro-active towards artists willing to create hi fidelity 3d elements of their vicinity, or known areas...

Edited November 18, 2022 by gkkes

[flyingpauls 66]

OSM is free for commercial use. So, I cannot understand why LR did not even place the houses and streets correctly. We have to download an appropriate scenery from other sources. Ortho scenery would exceed their financial and server resources. It is a pity and I feel sorry for LR. XP, however, still keeps its head high and continues to bash MSFS. 

Edited May 18 by flyingpauls

[mSparks 1,952]

50 minutes ago, flyingpauls said:

So, I cannot understand why LR did not even place the houses and streets correctly.

the support response for not being able to see your house and street in xplane is the same as it has been for some 14 years

fix it on osm with josm

https://developer.x-plane.com/2009/07/osm-what-you-can-do/

[flyingpauls 66]

11 hours ago, mSparks said:

the support response for not being able to see your house and street in xplane is the same as it has been for some 14 years

fix it on osm with josm

https://developer.x-plane.com/2009/07/osm-what-you-can-do/

And it is the same hazard still (for 14 years really?), filling up the hard drive and no seasons.

 

Edited May 19 by flyingpauls

[mSparks 1,952]

50 minutes ago, flyingpauls said:

for 14 years really?

X-plane has had global scenery supported by OSM since like XP8 or 9 (not sure, I started using it middle of XP10)

13 hours ago, flyingpauls said:

We have to download an appropriate scenery from other sources.

None of the stuff you can download is free for commercial use, X-Plane is mostly developed for pilot training which is commercial use.

There is a significant community coalesced around that who enjoy using it for personal use and entertainment, and share with each other, mostly for free, the results of their passion.

Probably the most significant of that is simheaven:

https://simheaven.com/downloads/

Quote

All files at simHeaven are free – for personal and private use only. It is not allowed to copy, publish or distribute any part of any file from this website without prior permission from simHeaven. Commercial use of the files or parts of them is prohibited in any way.

in specific circumstances, when a commercial client wants additional scenery for commercial use, it will/may be included in the base sim, e.g. KBTV for the work they have been doing with Beta and the Alia 250.

But generally, most of the commercial use stuff is made specifically on a client by client basis, and for their exclusive use.

50 minutes ago, flyingpauls said:

no seasons.

XP12 has seasons by default now, old downloads might not support it yet, but they will do eventually, just set the day of the year in settings.

50 minutes ago, flyingpauls said:

filling up the hard drive

TBH, not requiring internet access is a fairly important

13 hours ago, flyingpauls said:

Ortho scenery would exceed their financial and server resources.

Actually, it's not their financial and server resources which are the problem.

The market cost of of the bandwidth used for continually streaming bytes isn't cheap, I pay 1c per gigbyte, so if I served you with 1TB of streamed ortho in a month (basically $0 in terms of disk cost) I'd need to collect from you $10 in that month just to break even.

Even I could provide it, but would you pay it + my profit?

Anything else is either illegal or otherwise unsustainable.

 

Edited May 19 by mSparks

[flyingpauls 66]

Using OSM to get their default scenery right is not illegal. That is perfectly free, also for commercial use. They just didn't.

And I thought, seasons stopped working when Ortho4XP is used. Interesting to hear that it is now working.

Yes, MSFS uses an expensive network by Microsoft to serve the scenery. LR cannot cope with this. Even more important would be a good default scenery.

 

[mSparks 1,952]

12 minutes ago, flyingpauls said:

Using OSM to get their default scenery right is not illegal. That is perfectly free, also for commercial use. They just didn't.

Yes they did - continually for the last 14 years.

The "additional" downloads you are talking about are additional 3D objects that add variety.

OSM is 2D location and meta data.

Edited May 19 by mSparks