I think there's also a physical limitation in a monitor compared to real life, i.e. in real life your eyes adjust to the amount of light depending on where you're looking at, inside the cockpit vs outside through the windows and against the sun.

So in a fixed view, if the exposure is done for the outside view, cockpit will be too dark, and if it's done for the cockpit, outside view will be too bright. Maybe using a different tone mapping would resolve the issue, albeit producing a less realistic image in terms of lighting.

Using TrackIR or VR would be a different story, because in that case you can effectively look in different directions, albeit still not as naturally as in real life.

I think Ben mentioned all of those issues I described above in a comment in one of his blog posts about cockpits being too dark in XP12.

 

4 hours ago, 2reds2whites said:

That is absolutely not true. In my 10 years of commercial flying around the world I have NEVER seen anything which looks like that.

Well, I can get glare like that in my car where the forward view is almost non existent due to glare!  Maybe the way X-Plane has to portray it on a monitor is what concerns you, but glare can be a huge issue in the air.

X-Plane has tone mapping datarefs which control the rendering of sunlight. Those that have an effect when changed:

sim/private/controls/tonemap/clip
sim/private/controls/tonemap/crosstalk
sim/private/controls/tonemap/hdr_mid
sim/private/controls/tonemap/saturation
sim/private/controls/tonemap/tone_tap_bias

 

Default appearance/values:

 

Some quick tweaking:

 

Use Datareftool for playing with the datarefs temporarily and this FlyWithLua script code for making value sstick across X-Plane restarts:

--[[ Initialize datarefs as table to shield them from other scripts.
Note, dataref value must be accessed by table index, e.g. XP12Dref_Tonemap_Clip[0]
]]
local XP12Dref_Tonemap_Clip = dataref_table("sim/private/controls/tonemap/clip")
local XP12Dref_Tonemap_Crosstalk = dataref_table("sim/private/controls/tonemap/crosstalk")
local XP12Dref_Tonemap_HDRMid = dataref_table("sim/private/controls/tonemap/hdr_mid")
local XP12Dref_Tonemap_Saturation = dataref_table("sim/private/controls/tonemap/saturation")
local XP12Dref_Tonemap_ToneTapBias = dataref_table("sim/private/controls/tonemap/tone_tap_bias")
--[[
These values will be set once when the script is initially parsed.
Any other script also writing to these datarefs after this one will of course overwrite these values.
]]
XP12Dref_Tonemap_Clip[0] = 100         -- Default: 10
-- XP12Dref_Tonemap_Crosstalk[0] = 8   -- Default: 8
XP12Dref_Tonemap_HDRMid[0] = 0.6       -- Default: 1
XP12Dref_Tonemap_Saturation[0] = 0.8   -- Default: 1
XP12Dref_Tonemap_ToneTapBias[0] = 3    -- Default: 0

 

Copy and paste into a text file, save text file as "Tonemapping_Adjust.lua", move text file into "X-Plane 12/Resources/plugins/FlyWithLua/Scripts", start X-Plane. Script(s) can be reloaded from the FlyWithLua plugin menu, but I recommend playing with DataRefTool first and only then make any changed values permanent in the script.

 

Happy experimenting.

 

 

Edited November 17, 20223 yr by Bjoern

I believe this is a tough one to get "right" compared to real world flying.

 Consider the following images I took earlier this fall.

First one has a sky/sunlight more akin to what XP12 is showing. But the camera (my cheap smart phone) is compensating brightness due to the simple fact that the inside of cockpit is main focus

On the other hand. The image below has a much toned down brightness of the sky, since the lens doesn't need to account for the darker cockpit. Same cloudscape, but vastly different appearance...

I get what LR is trying to achieve, believe me. I'm a pilot flying in bloody scandinavia where the sun is always low during winter!  For reference, this at 12:55 pm local time where I live, late december. 

My take on the default effect is that it's a work in progress, and thankfully can be tweaked, as evidenced above.

Edited November 17, 20223 yr by SAS443

On 11/16/2022 at 11:18 PM, Murmur said:

On the contrary, they should add MORE glare effects, as those listed in the linked aviation article: wet asphalt, bright snow, dirty windshield, etc.

Oh yes, let's turn xplane into a nightclub, great idea. 👏

 

Maybe we can ask Laminar to package a "deluxe version" for the most demanding users. 😎

1 hour ago, efis007 said:

Oh yes, let's turn xplane into a nightclub, great idea. 👏

Maybe we can ask Laminar to package a "deluxe version" for the most demanding users. 😎

 

And what is the point of this post again ?

I’ve bought a pair of  electrostatic car sun visors for £8 pound off Amazon which I slap on the windscreen on my real world 787, job done..

1 hour ago, efis007 said:

Oh yes, let's turn xplane into a nightclub, great idea. 👏

No, just make its lighting even more realistic. Gone are the days of the unrealistic and flat lighting of FS2004.

1 hour ago, Baber20 said:

And what is the point of this post again ?

Some sarcastic humour for a Friday afternoon. I enjoyed it.

I like the way it's done in X-Plane, it feels realistic to me and doesn't feel overdone. If anyone has driven to work on a cold winter's morning when the sun is low and glaring through the windshield, I find it pretty realistic, although somewhat more artistic and based on a camera lens rather than our own eyes.

4 hours ago, efis007 said:

and graphically it is NOT better than other simulators on the market

Unfortunately this is where I stopped taking your post seriously. If you really believe this, then I am afraid you lack basic comprehension of game engine graphics. Thanks for the chuckle though. 

And again the magenta itself is not a bug but a debugging tool. Below this there is indeed a bug hidden, but we don’t know how it looks like bcse the magenta  is on by default and overwrite it.

on my 1070 I still have to encounter it.

6 hours ago, Baber20 said:

11 hours ago, efis007 said:

and graphically it is NOT better than other simulators on the market

Unfortunately this is where I stopped taking your post seriously. If you really believe this, then I am afraid you lack basic comprehension of game engine graphics. Thanks for the chuckle though. 

If he feels that, why is he on this forum?  I will always say MSFS is a great sim, but through my eyes it is graphically 'poorer', if he wants to use those terms, mainly down to the new lighting engine.  I regularly load up MSFS and recreate a flight I completed in XP12, and so far always feel the atmosphere in MSFS looks duller and flatter (NOT POOR!) - and this from a user with 1700 hours in MSFS. However, I would always suggest people try both sims and fly what feels and looks better TO THEM.

I currently feel XP12 is a better sim for me, so use it as my primary flight sim, perhaps he should make the same choice (or use both for what each brings to the table) and stop his incessant criticisms of XP12 on this forum.

Flying in the north with short winter days taking off into the sun when just above the horizon, throw in some ice fog and yes you can experience something much like this.

34 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I regularly load up MSFS and recreate a flight I completed in XP12

I thought I was the only one lol. But yes, I do also prefer the lighting and colour gradient of Xplane 12. It just captures the feel of actually being there if you know what I mean. A little off topic and I don't know how to explain this better, but Xplane 12 also captures the height/altitude rendering much better.