Just now, Ricardo41 said:

I bought Zürich Kloten from the Marketplace, but I still can't install GSX Pro.....

That's normal, there's no way for us (or anybody else) to verify the license of something bought in the Marketplace.

55 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

I bought Zürich Kloten from the Marketplace, but I still can't install GSX Pro.....

I see you're starting to get a flavour of FSDT's customer support...

This is among the many reasons why I got a refund for GSX Pro. They don't make things explicit, but then it's always your fault for not knowing what is apparently blindingly obvious to the developer (but they don't bother to actually say this anywhere - not on the site, not in the manual). 

For me it wasn't worth the bugs and the constant battle to get support for a product I paid for. Free addons often have much better support!

 

Well, at least it should state more clearly in the manual:

Trial only works if you have at least one FSDreamteam airport installed (non Market Place). You can then use GSX Pro on any of your non Market Place FSDreamteam airports in addition, GSX Pro will then also work on KSFO, EDDM, and LIMC.

6 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

Maybe this is why there are so many GSX airport profiles appearing on flightsim.to.

Rob, can you 'splain how profiles work, what they do, how to install them--must be a simple drop into the Comm Folder?

So far I've only had the one odd pushback but everything else has been quite good!  I did have one other anomaly where the jetway apparently couldn't connect to the plane so PAX began walking on air to load into the plane.  It was in the B78X HD.  

GSX was a really difficult thing to integrate into MSFS and I applaud the dev for doing it I can imagine it was really challenging to try to get right.  I think for it's sale price it is super well worth the small price.  I hope the de-icing works it's that time of year here....Up Over....as opposed to Down Under 🙃

 

45 minutes ago, FlyingGoose said:

Free addons often have much better support!

It's real nice when those free addons come from people not trying to make a living at this. Very different story when you're trying to make a living off of this yet must continue to support the product on a skeleton staff and budget else die fast as a dev.

2 hours ago, Noel said:

It's real nice when those free addons come from people not trying to make a living at this. Very different story when you're trying to make a living off of this yet must continue to support the product on a skeleton staff and budget else die fast as a dev.

Yes, that's true.

But that's not an excuse. Plenty of paid developers offer reasonable support and don't immediately rush to blame their users. Fenix is a good example - brand new but great support. PMDG has good support as well (yes, their forums can be odd, but the support ticket system works well and they are professional). There are many others (FlyTampa, OrbX, etc.) that do a reasonable job. Just basic customer support things that are table stakes in 2022 (heck in 2002). 

FSDT simply refuses to accept the fact that they could have made a mistake - their code is always perfect and the issue is always with MSFS/Cloudflare/User/Computer/Weather/WhoKnowsWhat. 

And it's not like FSDT is some brand new one-person shop. I'm sure they are small, but they have been around for a long while so they really should know how to do proper support/communication by now. The fact that they don't makes it clear that they simply don't care. That might well be a reason why they will remain the size they are, instead of growing with the massive new user base. 

Anyway, I don't mean to turn people off from GSX. I used to use it a lot in P3D and it worked fine. In MSFS it simply doesn't work as well as it did. I don't know why, and frankly I don't care anymore after being yelled at by the lead developer when I asked a few questions on the official forum (and oh, you can't post on the forum till you are "manually approved", which can take days). If the product works for you, great.. but if it doesn't, good luck trying to get support. 

 

13 minutes ago, FlyingGoose said:

FSDT simply refuses to accept the fact that they could have made a mistake - their code is always perfect and the issue is always with MSFS/Cloudflare/User/Computer/Weather/WhoKnowsWhat. 

Do you have any evidence that a mistake was made in coding?  My sense is when you have maximum knowledge about the inner workings of the SDK it's very possible some or even all of these shortcomings are a direct result of MSFS/Cloudflare/User/Computer/Weather/WhoKnowsWhat.  

That being thrown out there I agree the dev is not sweet and accomodating and that generally doesn't go over well by the customer base.  I'm guessing that is more from struggling really hard long hours to make this work and being hit by roadblocks outside of his control and now having to support the product with its limitations, everytime needing to explain why it is the way it is.  I'm guessing Umberto was not real certain he should have tackled GSX at all for MSFS at this point in time.

41 minutes ago, Noel said:

Do you have any evidence that a mistake was made in coding?  My sense is when you have maximum knowledge about the inner workings of the SDK it's very possible some or even all of these shortcomings are a direct result of MSFS/Cloudflare/User/Computer/Weather/WhoKnowsWhat.  

That being thrown out there I agree the dev is not sweet and accomodating and that generally doesn't go over well by the customer base.  I'm guessing that is more from struggling really hard long hours to make this work and being hit by roadblocks outside of his control and now having to support the product with its limitations, everytime needing to explain why it is the way it is.  I'm guessing Umberto was not real certain he should have tackled GSX at all for MSFS at this point in time.

When I have an issue with a software product, it is NOT my job as a consumer (of a paid product) to go over every line of code to try and identify the issue. I have paid for a product, I expect a reasonable level of  support (and I have reasonable expectations, I expect Apple Customer Support to be a LOT better than PMDG/Fenix). I don't expect a small developer to have world class support, but I also don't expect to be told to go away and figure it out myself because it's all my fault. 

Do you sit and validate every line of code in every software product that you buy every time there's an issue? Do you go through the inner workings of .NET/Electron if Visual Studio Code doesn't work? 

I don't care if the issue is caused by MSFS or the SDK or the weather. The developers sold (note: SOLD) me this product with a long list of features - and then a lot of them didn't/don't work. If they cannot get it to work due to limitations in the SDK.. well, make that clear or else don't sell the product saying that it works if you can't make it work. 

And I'm not exaggerating here. I bought GSX on launch day on the basis of what the website said on that day. It wasn't true. They changed the website a few days after the launch (you can check this yourself with the Internet Archive). On Aug 18, 2022, the website said 

""While GSX already works automatically on any airports, default or 3rd party, users can customize every parking with specific options like the vehicles starting position, the ground/catering operators, setting multiple pre-planned custom routes for Pushback, and Passenger waypoints, outside or inside terminals. GSX airport profiles are just .INI text files which can be easily shared by users, or supplied directly by airport scenery developers."

Link for proof - https://web.archive.org/web/20220818155119/https://www.fsdreamteam.com/products_gsxpro.html.

You can see that there's no disclaimer or anything - this is what the site said when I bought it, and that was it. 

A few days later (not sure exactly when, but sometime between Aug 18 and Sep 1), this text changed to what it is today.

"*  While GSX works automatically with every airport, it needs to read the airport .BGL file, which means, by default, airports bought on the MS Marketplace won't work well, because GSX would use data from the default airport, since it can't read the add-on scenery because of the Marketplace DRM encryption. This is not an issue for FSDT airports, becaue we'll install a DRM-free version of the airport file automatically for all our sceneries but, for 3rd party sceneries, you might need to ask the original developers if they would be willing to make available a file with at least the basic airport data, which can be used by GSX when placed in the GSX profiles folder."

That's a pretty massive difference between "works on any airport, default or 3rd party" to "works, but you need support from the scenery dev, and oh btw the marketplace airports won't work blah blah". That's the kind of thing a competent developer would have tested BEFORE selling it to consumers. 

So no, I do not accept that FSDT is somehow being unfairly victimized here. Their customer support is extremely poor, their product isn't very good, and their bait and switch shenanigans are unacceptable.

If you like GSX or FSDT's products, great, I'm glad it works for you.

There are plenty of other developers that also work long hours to make their products work, and they are able to provide a decent level of support (and tell the truth about their products on the main buying website). I'd rather give those people my money. 

---

I'm sure FSDT reps (note: not you, Noel, the actual reps that identify as FSDT devs. I'm not saying you or the other real users are FSDT reps) will show up soon enough to point out all the reasons why I'm wrong; fine with me, I'm just a random guy and I'm not trying to make money here by pointing out their website changes. I'm not getting into an argument with unreasonable people so I won't be coming back to this thread. 

Final words - GSX the product in P3D was great. GSX the product in MSFS is not as good as P3D, but apparently it is now decent and many people seem to like it. That's good and anyone who likes that can buy it and I hope you enjoy it.

FSDT the company doesn't have the best customer support, putting that mildly/

 

Edited November 29, 20223 yr by FlyingGoose

My experience with FSDT so far has been positive. Every question I had was promptly answered and in a correct manner.

@FG it's obvious you have severe sour grapes with FSDT.  Tangentially, unlike you, I did not go out and buy GSX at launch and only tepidly jumped in very recently.  Intuitively I felt to make GSX really shine in MSFS which was/is in a constant state of change unlike P3D the launch time seemed too early to be able to release a bullet-proof intial launch.  I guessed right in some ways, and I'm guessing Umberto was not 100% certain on when to launch GSX and maybe has his own misgivings about that only he could say.  His sometimes terseness may be betraying his own sour grapes on not being able to get it to where he would have liked to at launch time.   Like MSFS itself (some were saying early on "MSFS is a beta project they should have released it when it was more complete as a full featured sim!") some would have preferred he hold off on GSX until it was essentially bullet-proof.

I can say right now, it's not bad and is worth the $$.  I never liked the idea of a Follow-Me car so most likely for now I will probably only use GSX at the departure airport for PAX and cargo loading, and pushback and hopefully de-icing if it works.   I'm not yet sure if you can pull into any 'suitable' gate and ask for GSX arrival services I ill have to check that out next time up.

 

Edited November 29, 20223 yr by Noel

I've been using GSX since launch and have been loving it.

 

  

12 minutes ago, Noel said:

and hopefully de-icing if it works

It's just for show, it won't actually remove any icing, that's a MSFS limitation.

  

12 minutes ago, Noel said:

I'm not yet sure if you can pull into any 'suitable' gate and ask for GSX arrival services

You can choose your arrival gate from the GSX menu from any point once you're under 10,000 IIRC.

Edited November 29, 20223 yr by Tuskin38

28 minutes ago, Tuskin38 said:

You can choose your arrival gate from the GSX menu from any point once you're under 10,000 IIRC.

Yes someone already said that.  What I'm asking is can I use MSFS ATC's gate assignment which happens when you select Gates after arrival, and can simply go to that gate via the blue taxi ribbon, then summon GSX to work.

1 hour ago, FlyingGoose said:

And I'm not exaggerating here. I bought GSX on launch day on the basis of what the website said on that day. It wasn't true. They changed the website a few days after the launch (you can check this yourself with the Internet Archive). On Aug 18, 2022, the website said 

""While GSX already works automatically on any airports, default or 3rd party, users can customize every parking with specific options like the vehicles starting position, the ground/catering operators, setting multiple pre-planned custom routes for Pushback, and Passenger waypoints, outside or inside terminals. GSX airport profiles are just .INI text files which can be easily shared by users, or supplied directly by airport scenery developers."

Link for proof - https://web.archive.org/web/20220818155119/https://www.fsdreamteam.com/products_gsxpro.html.

You can see that there's no disclaimer or anything - this is what the site said when I bought it, and that was it. 

A few days later (not sure exactly when, but sometime between Aug 18 and Sep 1), this text changed to what it is today.

"*  While GSX works automatically with every airport, it needs to read the airport .BGL file, which means, by default, airports bought on the MS Marketplace won't work well, because GSX would use data from the default airport, since it can't read the add-on scenery because of the Marketplace DRM encryption. This is not an issue for FSDT airports, becaue we'll install a DRM-free version of the airport file automatically for all our sceneries but, for 3rd party sceneries, you might need to ask the original developers if they would be willing to make available a file with at least the basic airport data, which can be used by GSX when placed in the GSX profiles folder."

That's a pretty massive difference between "works on any airport, default or 3rd party" to "works, but you need support from the scenery dev, and oh btw the marketplace airports won't work blah blah". That's the kind of thing a competent developer would have tested BEFORE selling it to consumers

--

Final words - GSX the product in P3D was great. GSX the product in MSFS is not as good as P3D, but apparently it is now decent and many people seem to like it. That's good and anyone who likes that can buy it and I hope you enjoy it.

FSDT the company doesn't have the best customer support, putting that mildly/

 

You are exaggerating like a used car salesman.

The original statement was absolutely true. Every feature absolutely did work automatically at launch as stated. "it needs to read the airport .BGL file, which means, by default, airports bought on the MS Marketplace won't work well" is not a massive difference. GSX provides the tools to fix the "issues" created by encrypted airports as part of its base features. Having the jetways or other objects not aligned properly to an encrypted add on scenery is not a "GSX problem". MSFS does not allow the required information to be read at all. By anyone. Saying that you don't accept that FSDT can't do it because they are blaming Asobo is childish and silly. It happens to be reality, so you just need to live with it. I'm sure that they only changed the web site after they realized how poor people's comprehension skills were. I wouldn't have guessed that they had to set the bar so low initially, either.

Look, you have every right to have a beef with a person or a product, but paying $30 for something doesn't entitle you to perfection, it entitles you to intended use. That is it. GSX has always been suitable for intended use. I would be perfectly fine standing in court of law testifying that GSX did what the product literature said it would do at launch time. The fact that some users can't (or won't try to) operate it, does not make it bad. Just like a can opener. 

There's a few folks on here that show up in every GSX thread with the intent of besmirching the product by saying things like the instructions aren't clear,  that it's so difficult or confusing to use, or finding excuses to continually perpetuate the notion that GSX is somehow dramatically and deeply flawed when it is not. Just observe the few that consistently try to gin up a "complicated" problem to which someone provides a very quick and easy way to utilize the features built in to GSX to correct then quickly try to spin another level of "difficulty" or "confusion" out of the answer. It always ends with "Well I shouldn't have to because I paid... blah, blah, blah...".  I won't name names. They'll be the ones upset when they read that. I'll let them call themselves out. 

I don't know anyone at FSDT personally, and I don't own any of the company but I can't just sit back and watch people with obvious personal agendas besmirching a man's character or his business unjustly without calling them out. I do think that you are being overly dramatic. I'd sure hate to be around you when you chip a nail.

GSX in MSFS is even more outstanding than it was in P3D and you know it. You're just mad because Umberto won't lie to you to make you feel better. Maybe he should just tell you "I'm wrong" and move on. That seems to be the only thing that would make you happy. He's not, and you still probably wouldn't be. 

Edited November 29, 20223 yr by MDFlier

18 minutes ago, Noel said:

What I'm asking is can I use MSFS ATC's gate assignment which happens when you select Gates after arrival, and can simply go to that gate via the blue taxi ribbon, then summon GSX to work.

Yes.

2 hours ago, Tuskin38 said:

Yes.

Yep I just tried it and all was well here.  It was just as hoped just followed ATC's direction and GSX was there to do the deboarding. 

3 hours ago, Tuskin38 said:

It's just for show, it won't actually remove any icing, that's a MSFS limitation.

But when I choose the plane's anti icing features the ice goes away. ..