6 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Can it compete with

https://steamcharts.com/app/730

terrific comeback.

13 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Can it compete with

https://steamcharts.com/app/730

Lol. Is that all you’ve got?

Goodnight mSparks👋

15 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

terrific comeback.

Apparently we're at the point of using Counter Strike Steam activity charts to prove that MSFS's blackshark implementation isn't as good as XP.

Edited December 2, 20223 yr by Nixoq

17 minutes ago, Nixoq said:

Apparently we're at the point of using Counter Strike Steam activity charts to prove that MSFS's blackshark implementation isn't as good as XP.

And forum reactions to one (1) thread in MSFS forum as a true measure stick how little the whole MSFS userbase cares about runway friction modelling

And that Asobo is only attending xbox convents and therefore don't give a hoot about "real simmers".

Anything else we missed in this TL DR-segment?

oh sorry, also this: Using Windows is a sign of low standards.

This thread has been a goldmine of stuff I did not expect to see...

Edited December 2, 20223 yr by SAS443

21 minutes ago, DD_Arthur said:

Lol. Is that all you’ve got?

not at at all.

Xplane is perfect for the steam deck, coming in around 1 million units shipped this year and grown from nothing in April to 0.36% of all steam daily users now, huge for a single device from a single vendor

Does blackshark run on linux? because that is a pretty big future market they would throw away if it doesnt. If they did that their steam numbers would end up looking like msfs rather than xplane or csgo, losing 90% of users to disappointment in the first days and months rather than posting the near continual MoM growth you get from an actually good, continually improving product as people find out they like it.

Edited December 2, 20223 yr by mSparks

21 minutes ago, SAS443 said:

Anything else we missed in this TL DR-segment?

You forgot that anything utilizing blackshark.ai would lose 90% of their customers if blackshark.ai weren't running on Linux.

4 minutes ago, Nixoq said:

You forgot that anything utilizing blackshark.ai would lose 90% of their customers if blackshark.ai weren't running on Linux.

More, there are only a few hundred thousand xplane PC users, there are more than 10 million on android and ios (which numerous "windows only" devs continue to demonstrate their business acumen by sacrificing while claiming to be super smart).

 

5 hours ago, Nixoq said:

PMDG are a full-time business with 10 or so people living off of the money they make. They're not a charity. Do you actually expect them to willingly make losses and drive their business into the ground by developing for a second platform that's not economically viable for them only because some people would like them to because it's their hobby? The point of a business is to make profit, not losses... No offense but that's just low-effort criticism. I think flight simmers need to stop expecting flight sim developers to act purely out of altruistic motivation.

Thank god we are in the X plane community where those who believe in their "altruistic motivation" are putting out some of the best aircraft on the market that give us Aerobesk, Aerosim3D Thranda MisterX for scenery. As matter of fact you wouldn't have inibuilds with their A310 if it wasn't for there passion for building the aircraft with so much attention to detail and now you have it. And besides their "altruistic motivation" they make their money in spite of it. 

 

5 hours ago, Nixoq said:

The problem comparing PMDG to Hotstart is that Hotstart develop one aircraft for one platform (AFAIK), whereas PMDG develop three aircraft and people want them to produce them all for both platforms at the same time too. That's just not gonna work if you're a 10-man business and if they go out of business no one's getting any aircraft.

"whereas PMDG develop three aircraft and people want them to produce them all for both platforms at the same time too."

Why not, since it didn't seem to bother anybody asking inibuilds to produce aircraft for MSFS when they are in the Xplane camp. Why is it problem to see something come in our direction? 

Hotstart: One aircraft for one platform working on three operating systems with just 2 guys on the development team.

As far as not getting any aircraft, who going to care if X plane users are flying the Zibo mod, because they they are not there to begin with.

 

Edited December 2, 20223 yr by BobFS88

33 minutes ago, BobFS88 said:

Thank god we are in the X plane community where those who believe in their "altruistic motivation" are putting out some of the best aircraft on the market give us Aerobesk, Aerosim3D Thranda MisterX for scenery. As matter of fact you wouldn't have inibuilds with their A310 if it wasn't for there passion for building the aircraft with so much attention to detail and now you have it. And besides their "altruistic motivation" they make their money in spite of it. 

You actually believe XP devs are in it for the smiles their addons bring to people's faces? While PMDG lack all sort of passion for the hobby and are evil for not supporting an additional market they can't sustain without running the business into the ground? Talk about low-effort criticism. Would be interesting to see any typically sized XP dev develop three aircraft for both P3D and XP.

33 minutes ago, BobFS88 said:

Why not, since it didn't seem to bother anybody asking inibuilds to produce aircraft for MSFS when they are in the Xplane camp. Why is it problem to see something come in our direction? 

Hotstart: One aircraft for one platform working on three operating systems with just 2 guys on the development team.

As far as not getting any aircraft, who going to care if X plane users are flying the Zibo mod, because they they are not there to begin with.

IniBuilds are completely switching over to MSFS, if I'm not mistaken. So they are not trying to sustain two different markets at once.

It's amazing what Hotstart have accomplished with their aircraft, no doubt. But XP running on three OS is entirely different to developing three different aircraft for two different simulators (including the one who runs on three different OS). Btw, I highly doubt Hotstart's aircraft is available on mobile, so it's not really three OS.

You just argued that XP users wanted PMDG's 737 over in XP and are mad about them pulling the plug on XP, now it doesn't matter if there were no PMDG because people on XP are flying the Zibo mod anyway?

Not sure if we should continue this since it's entirely off-topic. The bottom line is that it sucks for anyone wanting PMDG on XP, but being mad at a business for not running themselves into the ground for altruistic reasons of supplying a market they can't sustain just for the people is just completely unreasonable.

Besides: Given that PMDG are a full blown business looking to make a living I'm sure they would have stayed with XP had it proven worthwhile for them.

Edited December 2, 20223 yr by Nixoq

3 minutes ago, Nixoq said:

IniBuilds are completely switching over to MSFS, if I'm not mistaken. So they are not trying to sustain two different markets at once.

That is not true not has has been confirm. They are still planning a A300 for Xplane 12 from latest announcement. And as the interest continues to build now that RC1 is out, we will see whether not they will continue with the other aircraft conversion. I wouldn't hold my breath on completely switching over.

5 minutes ago, Nixoq said:

I highly doubt Hotstart's aircraft is available on mobile, so it's not really three OS.

 That is because  you don't count Linux being use on PC which is what mSparks uses.

 

10 minutes ago, Nixoq said:

You just argued that XP users wanted PMDG's 737 over in XP and are mad about them pulling the plug on XP, now it doesn't matter if there were no PMDG because people on XP are flying the Zibo mod anyway?

 Because PMDG left that door open so someone like Zibo makes to most use aircraft in the X plane fleet. The numbers of users are undeniable of the market they walk away from and the opportunity missed that could have been their paying customer. But to you, that make good business sense.  

 

18 minutes ago, Nixoq said:

Not sure if we should continue this since it's entirely off-topic.

Agree besides RC1 is out and I got other fish to fry, Have a good evening. 

15 minutes ago, BobFS88 said:

That is not true not has has been confirm. They are still planning a A300 for Xplane 12 from latest announcement. And as the interest continues to build now that RC1 is out, we will see whether not they will continue with the other aircraft conversion. I wouldn't hold my breath on completely switching over.

Fair enough, although bringing an existing aircraft from XP11 to XP12 is less complex than bringing a P3D aircraft into XP I would guess.

16 minutes ago, BobFS88 said:

That is because  you don't count Linux being use on PC which is what mSparks uses.

I do count Linux. That would be Windows, Linux and mobile OS, no? Since it's not on mobile that would only be Windows and Linux (2) or am I missing something?

17 minutes ago, BobFS88 said:

But to you, that make good business sense.

Not my point. Walking away from a lucrative market is obviously not good business sense. But the market wasn't lucrative for PMDG due to development being too expensive for both P3D and XP at the time, which really is the point I've been trying to convey the whole time.

20 minutes ago, BobFS88 said:

Agree besides RC1 is out and I got other fish to fry, Have a good evening. 

Same to you, have fun.

4 minutes ago, Nixoq said:

I do count Linux. That would be Windows, Linux and mobile OS, no? Since it's not on mobile that would only be Windows and Linux (2) or am I missing something?

MacOS is the other.

What a thread!

2 hours ago, Nixoq said:

You actually believe XP devs are in it for the smiles their addons bring to people's faces?

Most freeware/open licence stuff, regardless of whether its xplane, or flightgear or whatever, is done because the developers enjoy developing, want stuff for themselves (or just to defeat the challenge) and are willing to stomach the BS you get for releasing stuff to the gen pop for the smilies.

2 hours ago, Nixoq said:

While PMDG lack all sort of passion for the hobby and are evil for not supporting an additional market they can't sustain without running the business into the ground?

I'll go into this little rant because it pretty much hits the topic title bang on the head, if not the content of the OP.

PMDGs main problem is they got locked into the windows frameworks by the nature of those frameworks not working anywhere else, that was fine as long as windows totally dominated the market. Difficulty they face now is windows is currently on the same trajectory as DSLR cameras, just a few years behind, and the Microsoft execs wont sign off on WASM for XBOX as long as there is the tiniest chance it can end up being used to jailbreak..

That made XP not interesting to them when more than 40% of even PC Xplane users dont have/use windows machines.

Technically they weren't even in it for the flight sim, they started with professionally rewriting Boeings (terrible) documentation, and in doing so got enough knowledge in house to make a good simulation of them

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precision_Manuals_Development_Group

I'd be very surprised if they also weren't pushed back to FSX by the .org after the DC6

There is some hope there though, it is technically feasible to add WASM support - even by 3rd party - to the xplane SDK, not dissimilar to I did for XTLua, Ben Supnik has even mentioned similar once or twice before all his time got sunk into fixing sim bugs, if/when that comes they would be very foolish not to port to XP.

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

PMDGs main problem is they got locked into the windows frameworks by the nature of those frameworks not working anywhere else, that was fine as long as windows totally dominated the market. Difficulty they face now is windows is currently on the same trajectory as DSLR cameras, just a few years behind

Windows is not going anywhere. Anyone that is serious about gaming will be on Windows if not on a console. Sure, the marketshare has declined from 90%+ to 75% of the desktop share today. Part of that is due to the rise in mobile. Mac is at 15% but they are very expensive. Linux is irrelevant in the desktop space at 2%.
I'm also a developer. Linux was my main system in the 2000's. Then I went to Mac for a while and now I'm back on windows thanks to the Linux Subsystem for windows. It was a smart move to bring developers back to windows. I can even run Linux GUI applications directly with ease.

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

and the Microsoft execs wont sign off on WASM for XBOX as long as there is the tiniest chance it can end up being used to jailbreak..

This is probably why it is taking so long but it is only a matter of time.