5 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

From what I can tell, the MD-11 and Citation X aren't supersonic aircraft (well, not if their pilots want to live...). And the "Main Issue" seems to have severely affected their ability to operate in the sim now that the twenty-year old typo has been corrected.

What happened is a bad formula went into RC3 while they were working on supersonic flow over swept wings, which is already fixed, nothing more nefarious than that.

Edited December 12, 20223 yr by mSparks

54 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Source?

I'm going by 

https://fselite.net/content/world-update-12-announcement/

Which lists SU12 in March then nada except scenery and planes.

The good folks at FSElite occasionally miss things. Below link is screen cap from Jorg & Seb's own live interview:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-2023-roadmap/559244

20 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Source?

I'm going by 

https://fselite.net/content/world-update-12-announcement/

Which lists SU12 in March then nada except scenery and planes.

Really? Sources are not that hard to find. If you owned and followed MSFS, you would already know. MSFS / Asobo has been very transparent about their 2023 roadmap. Seek and ye shall find....

 

18 minutes ago, jcomm said:

I love MFS for it's scenery, overall graphics including weather depiction, functionality like the excellent integration with components that had to be bought, and even a rather acceptable online real traffic and ATC. Then when it comes to the "feel of flight" in lighter aircraft, ww2 props, even the helicopters, it still needs fine tunning, but! it hasn't stopped here....

Then I look at XP12 and feel it is probably one of the best releases of XP if not the Best ever!. Lot's of features and details, lot's of potential in some aspects like that of the new built-in ATC even if still limited and buggy in many aspects, but promising... I pick a Spitfire from the .Org, freeware XP12 version, take it for a ride, and feel that it is the closest to the DCS Spitfire I have been able to use so far, and that includes a comparison to the Flying Iron Slpitfire for MFS which is certainly the best they could do but leaves a lot to be desired... 

I thinks that MSFS outshines XP in many ways, and the things that XP does better...it only does so only by a hair.

The state of these sims "today" do not drive my decisions / investments as much as where will these sims be 1 or 2 years from now. MSFS has already laid about a promising roadmap for 2023. I just don't see XP coming anywhere close to that type of development post XP12 release.

Also, the 3rd party support plays a major factor. HPG's H145 (its mission and variants) had given life to helis for MSFS long before  MSFS FM release. Aerosoft's offshore landmarks give so much value to the Heli experience in MSFS as well. Coupled with 3rd party content and the frequent updates (WUs / SUs / AAUs), MSFS is just creating a huge lead / gap in the "overall" experience and content.

As we near the end of 2022, I don't see myself (at this point) upgrading to XP12 beyond summer 2023. At this pace of development,  MSFS has replaced (now with the Vision Jet and full Heli support) much of the content (aircraft / addon scenery etc) that I have in XP. 

I am starting to think that many folk are holding off (like me) to see where XP is headed; and I don't believe that many are impressed with a simple XP12 release that merely catches up as opposed to moving ahead. The masses want continued development. And MSFS has taken that lead to a whole new level.

Just now, UrgentSiesta said:

The good folks at FSElite occasionally miss things. Below link is screen cap from Jorg & Seb's own live interview:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-2023-roadmap/559244

There is only 1 SU in there, SU XII in March.

5 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

The good folks at FSElite occasionally miss things. Below link is screen cap from Jorg & Seb's own live interview:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/lets-talk-about-the-2023-roadmap/559244

I think the 7 scenery updates and 7 SUs puts them on a faster pace in 2023 than in 2022.

Just now, OverTheEDJ said:

7 SUs puts

If you are willing to count

AAU I "surprise" AAU II "surprise" "surprise" and AAUIII 

Indeed maybe, at least they still have one developer left working on the sim next year, I hear he is fairly talented to.

Military's use of P3D is absolutely tied to LM's street cred. LR hasn't exactly built up military rep, nor have they spent any time developing what you'd need for a battlefield model. It's a no-brainer to go with P3D if those 2 happened to be the only options. Would also be surprised if P3D was the only option out there for that market.

 

4 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

the Bonanza, and all other Defaults except for one, do NOT use CFD-Lite

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/new-propeller-cfd-soft-body-simulation-airplane-list/504719

?

 

'Ballpark' with XP will always still fall short. Doesn't matter how much that balsa-glider geometry is massaged. Steady-state behaviors (airliners and autopilots) have been mostly OK since P3D. PMDG is proof of that. That's the FSX core speaking.

The CFD is very much a joke as far as CFD goes, but it's great for marketing. In fact, it's largely the CFD that makes XP is so much more computationally efficient. That CFD uses a bunch of compute cores. It's spending 2-3x the computational power than XP to get to a 'ballpark' that will fundamentally never be equal with XP.

In fact PMDG called the CFD a 'buzzword' and their primary market segment (tubeliners) doesn't even care about it.

Edited December 13, 20223 yr by blingthinger

10 minutes ago, mSparks said:

There is only 1 SU in there, SU XII in March.

Please don't be pedantic.

In the release category identified as Sim Updates, there are 7 releases planned.

24 minutes ago, UrgentSiesta said:

identified as Sim Updates

That is the denial I was talking about.

11 sim updates in 2 years, is now 1 more + a load of filler like dedicating an entire month to fix the font on the G1000 (or whatever), but hey, at least they did get funding to hold over one developer right? that is indeed one more than I was expecting for 2023 this time last year. And its already job done, practically perfect in every way right? So it doesn't matter anyway.

 

Edited December 13, 20223 yr by mSparks

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

If you are willing to count

AAU I "surprise" AAU II "surprise" "surprise" and AAUIII 

Indeed maybe, at least they still have one developer left working on the sim next year, I hear he is fairly talented to.

#notworthit

 

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

Please don't be pedantic.

In the release category identified as Sim Updates, there are 7 releases planned.

Its the game that he plays (splitting hairs, distractions etc.). You are just not going to win a debate against a person who insists on being right even after he has been proven wrong time and time again. He started winning the moment you went back and forth because his goal is to frustrate folk as opposed to engage in any meaningful discussion.

On the other hand, MSFS has 7 planned major sim updates in its 3rd year run post release (not to mention the tons of free content). XP12 will have to "also" compete with MSFSs update schedule beyond its full release. The reality is, MSFS has set a high bar with its updates alone, and that carries more weight than a FM or any other so called "edge" that XP has over MSFS at the moment.

I think XP12 may lose the already sluggish momentum (it currently has) in 2023. LR has to find a way to keep things moving, and I just don't think that they can keep enough of a pace to convert the many users like myself that are still with XP11.

Edited December 13, 20223 yr by OverTheEDJ

2 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

I thinks that MSFS outshines XP in many ways, and the things that XP does better...it only does so only by a hair.

As we near the end of 2022, I don't see myself (at this point) upgrading to XP12 beyond summer 2023. At this pace of development,  MSFS has replaced (now with the Vision Jet and full Heli support) much of the content (aircraft / addon scenery etc) that I have in XP. 

I am starting to think that many folk are holding off (like me) to see where XP is headed; and I don't believe that many are impressed with a simple XP12 release that merely catches up as opposed to moving ahead. The masses want continued development. And MSFS has taken that lead to a whole new level.

Nice one! I was holding out for XP12 in lieu of the Aerobask Falcon 8X. At the rate MSFS is going with developers working on small and large biz jets, XP12 is likely not going to be installed on my dedicated computer. There won’t be an 8X in the near future for MSFS, but a handful of other jets are available or soon available that will fit the bill. Every avenue of MSFS is being expanded and refined that solidifies this platform as my only flight simulator platform. As I have said before, XP had its excellent mark in this hobby for me. The lack of significant improvements in realism that could/should have been XP12 has closed the door for me. It was great in it’s time and I am grateful for the enjoyment it brought to my life.

35 minutes ago, OverTheEDJ said:

on being right even after he has been proven wrong time and time again.

You mean like this thread...

Stumbled on that when I was looking for milviz breaking the NDA, how wrong did that work out? Are there any independent developers left (besides PMDG) making stuff for MSFS now? No doubt you think a complete lack of a developer ecosystem is a good thing...

 

Edited December 13, 20223 yr by mSparks

27 minutes ago, Doering said:

Nice one! I was holding out for XP12 in lieu of the Aerobask Falcon 8X. At the rate MSFS is going with developers working on small and large biz jets, XP12 is likely not going to be installed on my dedicated computer. There won’t be an 8X in the near future for MSFS, but a handful of other jets are available or soon available that will fit the bill. Every avenue of MSFS is being expanded and refined that solidifies this platform as my only flight simulator platform. As I have said before, XP had its excellent mark in this hobby for me. The lack of significant improvements in realism that could/should have been XP12 has closed the door for me. It was great in it’s time and I am grateful for the enjoyment it brought to my life.

It is very interesting how each simulator suits each of us.  After 2900hrs in MSFS, I find XP12 more realistic to my eyes, mainly down to a lighting model that I feel looks more like reality.  Don't get me wrong though, I do still rate MSFS as an excellent sim, but the lighting alone in MSFS looks too white, too flat...lacking in life for a better phrase.  Each individual element in MSFS is very good indeed.  For example, MSFS clouds are more mature and have greater variety than those in XP12, yet XP12's lighting is just so good I can forgive the clouds as this is very early in their development.

Here is an example I just took in XP12 (I was in HDR, so a little duller than it was on screen). The clouds, smoky haze on the horizon and lighting just bring the scene to life.  If I took that in MSFS, each element will be great by itself, but the whole scene would not be as convincing to me - I wish I had the words to better describe MSFS as technically fantastic, but lacking in 'soul'.

A screenshot from MSFS from my pc. Technically, it is superb, yet now I have seen XP12, this screenshot looks kind of 'generated' to me, almost 'CGI' like.  Each individual element is so good, yet the whole is missing something...

If I was asked which sim to go for I would say both should be looked at and only then make a choice - if you don't get both of course.

 

Edited December 13, 20223 yr by MrBitstFlyer

@MrBitstFlyer Good stuff! Yes, it is a complex mix that makes it just right for the individual user. I find the XP clouds are great when in complete coverage like your photos, but fall down in realism as individual clouds in scattered skies. In MSFS, the humidity slider plays an important part as does sliding the cloud layers to specific thickness, density and altitude for the most realism.

3 hours ago, OverTheEDJ said:

And MSFS has taken that lead to a whole new level.

Not really. They've definitely shown how inefficient a couple hundred devs can be.

The '23 calendar everyone's excited about is a mass of scenery and aircraft updates with one or two 'surprises'. Yawn.

New avionics is a bit more exciting. Austin just hired one of those types of devs, but honestly, the slew of glass cockpits is really quite boring and XP's g1000 is plenty for most.

What will be exciting to see is their weather. Oh and their scenery gateway. They even were kind enough to retain the same name LR gave it. How respectful! Definitely a nod to the trailblazer. I wonder if there's a cease-and-desist possibility somewhere in there but Austin would never win against that 800lb ape in the room.