10 minutes ago, Torsen said:

Taken out of context, eh? 😉 Its a RC atm and that one is behaving worse than the Beta versions before for me. Should have been clear through my prior posts. 

You described all your other sims as 'nice & smooth', but XP12 as 'a mess'.  I think it is better described as a beta for those that may be here for the first time considering purchasing XP12.  Although I understand some of us will have backward steps with a new beta/RC, yet mine has only ever improved. In fact I have stopped using MSFS after 2000 hours because XP12 looks and flies amazingly good for me.

1 minute ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

You described all your other sims as 'nice & smooth', but XP12 as 'a mess'.  I think it is better described as a beta for those that may be here for the first time considering purchasing XP12.  Although I understand some of us will have backward steps with a new beta/RC, yet mine has only ever improved. In fact I have stopped using MSFS after 2000 hours because XP12 looks and flies amazingly good for me.

Whatever sim you choose is just your decision and who am I to comment on this. Me no one sim word not allowed. And I would not have even xp11 and xp12 in parallel use if I would not like them. But a RC is no beta anymore as the name states. Its a Release Candidate. It could be Released in that state if no big issues occur the next day. Lucky you that your xp12 has improved. Still for me the RCs were a very big step backwards especially but not only performance wise up to now. Hope that gets fixed as in general I like what I see. Is it perfect? No. But there is no single perfect sim and will never be. 

Cheers T.

Regarding flight dynamics of trans and supersonic flight, Austin is actively working on updating it the best he can, thanks mostly to the help provided by documentation and comments Alexis ( Alec ) and Marco ( Murmur ) have provided.

In his last video where he talks about the new calculations for swept back wings he mentions an approach which Alec and Murmur pointed him to be excessive in terms of CL ( coefficient of lift ) reduction and sent him papers on the matter that will help finding a better implementation (*)

This is an area which is very important for correct modelling of flight characteristics / performance near the transonic and then supersonic regions. So, X-Plane 12 is as dynamic as the previous versions were, for the good and for the bad, but after all this tends to be the new state of the art among general purpose flightsims...  We are using MFS with it's CFD flight dynamics BUT with the legacy ground physics which causes all sort of problems & inaccuracies in aircraft behaviour with their wheels in contact with the ground, and is waiting for a future SIM update.... Weather isn't fully implemented / stable either, nor ATC, nor DX12,... not much difference in the concept of "released" between the various platforms... see?

(*) They also sent him documentation about the formulas for transonic drag, but I don't now if Austin is using that... These are very important aspects that can make X-Plane's high speed aerodynamics top notch! It pays to wait for the changes, and since Austin is at it and interested in bringing the best solution to the final release version, it is great to know.

Marco even commented about this in Austin's video (1st comment in the bellow link): 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ruh93CwQBCI&lc=UgxaE8nY6OAOT4xuNQR4AaABAg

 

 

Edited December 10, 20223 yr by jcomm

The bad thing about this is having to wait for each developer to fix their aircraft. Some might take weeks, others months, and some might not even fix it.

I know it's a change for the better, but there's that feeling of why this hasn't been done sooner and choosing a release candidate to introduce this change sounds wrong, because release candidates should only be for fixing bugs.

X-Plane 12 will release with basically zero flyable airliner...

31 minutes ago, edu2703 said:

The bad thing about this is having to wait for each developer to fix their aircraft. Some might take weeks, others months, and some might not even fix it.

I know it's a change for the better, but there's that feeling of why this hasn't been done sooner and choosing a release candidate to introduce this change sounds wrong, because release candidates should only be for fixing bugs.

X-Plane 12 will release with basically zero flyable airliner...

Well,

because as Austin honestly admitted, he wasn't aware of it until recently, already after the release of RC1... 

I find it better this way than latter, with a stable version and developers already at cruise speed, doing such a change with impact on how most aircraft that cruise at high speeds behave.

But I see you point too!

The timing may not be the best. But for sure better asap within RC phase than after release. That would have been a sh**storm then for sure.

On 12/9/2022 at 4:38 PM, mSparks said:

Laminar are so on the cutting edge

Umm?😀 Who would have known.

Edited December 10, 20223 yr by jarmstro

18 hours ago, jarmstro said:

Umm?😀 Who would have known.

Yep, they didn't break anything they are just so ahead of the curve AMD and Nvidia can't keep up 😉  I guess I will ask Nvidia to fix everything RC3 broke over here...  Not Beta 3 but RC3 to be clear.

Edited December 11, 20223 yr by psolk

20 hours ago, Torsen said:

The timing may not be the best. But for sure better asap within RC phase than after release. That would have been a sh**storm then for sure.

Now is pretty much the time to expect such issues to be found, just about at the point the sim is stable enough to actually get a flight in to test and report and fix, its why we have stable releases, beta releases, release candidates and major versions (the last being where everything is allowed to be broken in order to make things better).

21 hours ago, edu2703 said:

X-Plane 12 will release with basically zero flyable airliner...

During previous release cycles many developer's didn't even start to test and report issues until a release went final, there is at least hope of a release going final with most things working now.

It's been an absolute honor to witness the pros discuss what is right, wrong and ways forward, the level of detail they have gone into is beyond insane, multiple thousand+ page references (which often disagree with each other) getting quoted, dissected analysed and then tested on xplane and compared against real world figures to see who was right.

Which Austin then takes, and summerises into a short educational video anyone and everyone can understand with all the chaff taken out. 

And you think all that will result in unflyable airliners? Seriously?

4 hours ago, mSparks said:

And you think all that will result in unflyable airliners? Seriously?

If you had the time to actually read my comment carefully instead of simply reading only the last paragraph and coming here to criticize me, you would see that I fully understand the modification was made in order to improve the quality of the flight model.

My only criticism was that this change wasn't made sooner, giving time to properly test the changes, listen to feedback and give the third-party devs time to make the changes in their addons. It was chosen to be made when XP12 is already close to release, introduced in a Release Candidate version, when RC versions should only be to fix bugs and not to introduce major changes.

It wasn't a good time. When XP12 is released, it's possible that no airliner addon will be flyable by then and the only way is to wait for the goodwill of the devs of each addon to make the necessary changes so that they can be flyable again with the flight model changes made. What will it take? Weeks? Months?

That was my only observation. At no time did I suggest not making changes just to maintain compatibility with addons or that addons will never be flyable again.

 

Edited December 11, 20223 yr by edu2703

1 hour ago, edu2703 said:

you would see that I fully understand the modification was made in order to improve the quality of the flight model.

I know, but multiple airliners are in development now in preparation for the release.

This whole video

wasn't just about getting airliners flyable, but flyable to the numbers against changing wing geometry.