Comair Flight Crashes After Departing Lexington, Kentucky

[Guest P3_Super_Bee]

>>Granted, I am not a pilot, but I don't understand why so>much>>heat/attention >>Neither do I. Forget even the 40 degrees - the runway was half>the normal width and unlit.>>Michael J.>http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/for...argo_hauler.gif>http://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg1. Need to learn how to read. Rules state ONE banner in the signature.2. Again Need to learn to read. It has been stated and shown with pictures. The runway pavement for both runways are the SAME Width. Only on 26 is the middle 75 feet are lined off for the "useable" runway. http://publish.hometown.aol.com/p3superb/i...s/sign_name.jpg

[Guest CRJ700FO]

>You've spread disinformation (runway on MFD during t/o,>confirmed by a friend that flies the 700 for PSA), tried to>show what a big bad dude you are for flying a jet on short>hops that all of us regional pilots do, and now you make fun>of the airplane I fly?i admitted i was wrong. but you don't admit your "standby" malaise (shame shame)......what am i the iraqi news minister as i'm "disinforming"? big bad dude for short legs, hardly. the 200 is a pig, yes.>I will now make fun of eagles':>>-Contracti can play this game. we both work at crappy companies.i get a raise every year at least. your company buys into your flying.>-Payrates (sweet dude, you make less then me and you are>flying 70 seater. sweeeeeeeet! a jet!!!!)$2/hr less whoop-d-doo. we do make more in per diem (whoop-d-doo!).>-QOLi live in ORD and love my QOL. how did those who live in chicago like PHL/ORF/DCA now for your company. it sucked so much they left.>-Mgmt/employee relationswe're all one big happy dysfunctional amr family. every whiskey j/s i've ever had doesn't like the new domiciles, bids, or how the company is treating them.> >and the big one, (drum roll please........)>>-UPGRADE (awac is 2 years, 3 months currently, what is>eagles???)all to predictable. i do have thankfully 121 PIC time and did not come to eagle for the upgrade time, simply to be based at home. it can change in a second. air whiskey was 7 years upgrade time just a year and a half ago. i upgraded at mesa in 3 months, big deal. you'll eventually learn that there is more to life than upgrading, although i do have a type rating. but hey go get em, so you can be at the bottom of continental's seniority list.>this is fun, I can do this all day.me too. two crappy regional pilots complaining about each others crappy companies.>P.S. Yes, I told eagle thanks but no thanks. Probably the best>decision I've made so far :). I knew that to be true when I>had an 8 year eagle FO on the jumpseat...(she was ORD based).i'm glad you are enjoying air whiskey. your upgrade time came way down with the move to PHL and people leaving. hopefully our FO was easy on the eyes for you.you forgot our crappy:- gate agents attitudes- poor ground service- lovely reduced turn timesi heard you guys are in the finals for midwest's express flying. feel good to take flying away from another wholly owned carrier (skyway)?

[Tom Allensworth 1,532]

Okay boys, let's stop the food fight (like in, let's all get along now).

[Jeff Nielsen 1,385]

LOL, I see nothing has changed at the airlines since I left in the 80's.:-)

[Guest CRJ700FO]

>LOL, I see nothing has changed at the airlines since I left>in the 80's.:-)and you left in the good days.........i hear many funny stories from the TWA guys i fly with.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,385]

Not exactly...lol. It was still a minimum wage job then as far as the regionals were concerned (United Express/WestAir-FAT base to be exact). Deregulation had long been set in.I think FO's were making something like $1500.00/mo - block (can't remember the hours), I forget the overtime after block hours, but you were really humping to fly after that kind of a schedule.I worked in dispatch at the time at only 19 years old in '89 as a flight follower for the non 121 flights (or non flight attendant 19 seats or less as I knew it for me not having to be FAA certified for that position). I think they told me I was the youngest employee ever hired.Mechanics were the only ones making any decent money and pilots were just marking turbine time to get hired with a major.In any case I was refering to the fact that other then the military the airport and airlines probably have the highest number of the youngest people working for them at the lowest wages with the highest amount of responsibility out of any other job in the world (IMO).This bread people always telling on people on the ramp especially for stupid stuff they weren't even qualified to talk about, etc., etc.Pilots did the same crap at their level and so did FA's, and so on and so on.Everyone seemed to always be trying to get over and get a leg up and feel important.I noticed it alot when I was filming out at KCI for our scenery. Fortunately I was with airport execs who are friends of mine so I didn't have to put up with it too much, but I could still see alot of went on behind the scenes if you get me.Anyways, I really didn't want to talk about this in front of all the kids. In a lot of respects I still wish I was with them, but I decided the military was what I wanted to do at the time. I did have tons of fun 'non-reving' all over the place at practically any hour I wanted to go flying, and over all it would have been a great career, so I want people to understand the context of my statement and not take it too literally at the same time.

[Guest CRJ700FO]

>Not exactly...lol. It was still a minimum wage job then as>far as the regionals were concerned (United>Express/WestAir-FAT base to be exact). Deregulation had long>been set in.the guy i'm flying with this month is an old west air CA (emb 110 bandit) before he went to TWA. did you leave before mesa bought the company?

[Jeff Nielsen 1,385]

Oh yeah, I left not long after we bought NPA to the north. We got sold on the Junk Streams(J31) to replace the gazillion 110's we still had flying around. We even had a few Shorts 360's flying around.The 120's and 146's were the big deal for pilots. We were the only commuter allowed to have jets in our fleet at the time.SkyWest got us I think. I called them in St. George not long ago for help with our 120 project and was amazed to see that Mo was now in charge of all maint., and a few pilots were still with them and remembered some of my old stories I had.One of those stories involved our 120 MP (Cody I think was his name)doing a single engine turn to the gate when it was really windy out. The prop was still windmilling after shutdown in the wind so he tried to lasso it from the a/c's air stair with the prop cover and it jerked him out onto the ramp...ROFL. Very funny.

[Mace 1,896]

>>the faa by its very nature has 2 roles, which are in direct>conflict with one another. one is indeed, safety. the>promotion of the aviation industry is the other (with the>airlines ata lobbying championing their cause).>Hmm...how can it be a good thing for the FAA to be involved in promoting the aviation industry? Wouldn't it be best if the FAA just focussed on safety, and that's it?RhettAMD 3700+ powered by Gerbil wheel + gerbil, eVGA 7800GT 256, ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 gigs Corsair TWINX, blah blah, etc. etc.

[Mace 1,896]

>>I haven't seen any report that indicates the controler didn't>know where the plane was WHEN THE CLEARACE WAS GIVEN. But if>the controler is allowed to clear for BOTH taxi AND takeoff>before the aircraft leaves the parking apron there is a>significant delay between the takeoff clearance and its use.>My thoughts exactly. But..>Maybe it's time to:>>Require the delay of takeoff clearance until aircraft has>reported clearing the last runway they had to cross along>their taxi route. At busy airports I would imagine it's normal>not to issue runway entry or takeoff clearance until the>aircraft is at or near the takeoff runway's hold short line>anyway.>Why not just simply make every plane hold short? No more clearance from taxi, even if you're the only airplane on the field.RhettAMD 3700+ powered by Gerbil wheel + gerbil, eVGA 7800GT 256, ASUS A8N-E, PC Power 510 SLI, 2 gigs Corsair TWINX, blah blah, etc. etc.

[mgh 89]

The primary cause of this accident was the decision of the Commander of the aircraft to takeoff on the wrong runway to which he hadn't been cleared:"In my opinion, if the Commander had done his/her job, to the letter, (a very simple task) this would never have happened. Period. Simple. End of story."A secondary cause was the failure of the other members of the flight crew to notice this and take and action."In my opinion, if the other members of the flight crew had done their jobs, to the letter, (a very simple task) this would never have happened. Period. Simple. End of story." It is not at all clear that the controller didn't do what was required. If takeoff clerance was issued before while the aircraft was taxying and the contoller knew where it was at that time then 3-1-7 was complied with. In any event, the primary cause is still the Commander's decision to takeoff on the wrong runway, whatever may have caused that.

[Guest CRJ700FO]

>Hmm...how can it be a good thing for the FAA to be involved in>promoting the aviation industry? Wouldn't it be best if the>FAA just focussed on safety, and that's it?a lot of people would want that, but it ain't gonna happen. there used to be a time the air transport business needed government support and funding and promotion, now everyone knows about it.

[Jeff Nielsen 1,385]

Just recieved this email from the FAA. The link appears to be broke though.Flight crew techniques and procedures that enhance pre-takeoff and takeoff safetyNotice Number: NOTC0567http://www.faasafety.gov/SPANS/events/2006..._SAFO_06013.pdf The recent tragic accident of a commuter jet taking off from the wrong runway brings into sharp focus the importance of maintaining situational awareness and adherence to crew resource management procedures. There are many other factors that can distract a pilot and cause the loss of situational awareness. Even subtle distractions could demand a share of the pilot's workload, such as dealing with company procedures, passengers, running late and even personal issues. It is imperative that flight crews maintain the highest levels of airmanship discipline and crew resource management. This SAFO is a reminder of existing FAA aircraft ground operation guidance.You have received this notice from FAASafety.gov because you have selected "General Information" in your preferences on your FAASafety.gov account. Click here to log in and edit your preferences on FAASafety.gov.Safety is a learned behavior...Learn to be safer at the Learning Center found on FAASafety.gov faasafety.gov | Email Preferences | Local Contact Information | Opt Out Do not reply to this email as it is an unmonitored alias. Email webmaster for comments or questions.

[btacon 1,764]

Sounds like good, common sense advise.Thanks Jeff..bt

[Jeff Nielsen 1,385]

I figured if were going pick the incident apart and point fingers, then some of those fingers should also come back at us as well.No matter how trivial the incident may seem from a procedural standpoint, it's the least we can do to also learn from it and double check oursleves at the same time, otherwise those 49 lives were all for nothing and tombstone tactics prevail once again.