Is my Christmas gift coming this week, LM?

[Ray Proudfoot 8,942]

6 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

P3D is the modern FS9 and FSX

What a ridiculous thing to say. Just like a Rolls-Royce is a modern Model Ford? Multiple versions have transformed what was FSX into a modern 64-bit DX12 simulator that utilises the CPU and GPU in a way that just wasn’t possible with FSX.

And with all the advances it still retains backward compatibility with some airport scenery such as FSDreamTeam. Long may it continue.

I primarily use P3D because it has the aircraft I wish to fly. If another sim doesn’t have those aircraft it is of no interest to me.

[kingm56 1,031]

You entirely missed my point ; I realize there's a lot of emotion for some simmers towards thier preferred simulation platform.  I'm sure P3D will continue for multiple decades, similar to FS9 and FSX, AND THATS MY POINT!  P3D, like those aforementioned sims, will continue without support from key third party developers.  This isn't a guess as several vendors have openly stated they've ceased ALL development for P3D products.  The already small market will continue to shrink as 'the aircraft you love to fly'  continue to be ported to other platforms (e.g. A2A, PMDG, etc).  You also have to hope V6 is backwards compatible.  To that point, do you think PMDG is going to cease porting thier existing line in to MSFS to port thier P3D V5 products to V6?  V6 isn't going to shift the current market paradigm; thus, you should be careful what you wish for...you'll have a new simulator that MIGHT not be backwards compatible with limited third-party support.  P3D without third-party support is not very appealing; in fact, it may force many to stay where the existing apps are (e.g. V4/V5). 

Edited December 20, 2022 by kingm56

[Ray Proudfoot 8,942]

2 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

You entirely missed my point ; I realize there's a lot of emotion for some simmers towards thier preferred simulation platform.  I'm sure P3D will continue for multiple decades, similar to FS9 and FSX, AND THATS MY POINT! 

If I missed your point it’s because you didn’t make it clear enough. Notice I quoted one small part of your post. It is that I took exception to.

There is a huge amount of scenery and to a lesser extent, aircraft available for P3D. The Vertx DA62 works fine in v5 when it was designed for v4. I would expect PMDG to make any changes required to get their aircraft compatible with v6.

That’s assuming tweaks are required. Nothing is known yet about v6 so speculation is pointless.

Your post confuses me. Are you leaving P3D behind and moving to MSFS? Your several references to “you” and not “us” makes me believe you are.

[anzac1977 140]

If LM just released an update that fixed up EA clouds and allowed them to have local not global patterns I would be happy.

Or just implement what ever changes Hifi needs to improve their weather simulation with true sky.

[kingm56 1,031]

17 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

If I missed your point it’s because you didn’t make it clear enough. Notice I quoted one small part of your post. It is that I took exception to.

There is a huge amount of scenery and to a lesser extent, aircraft available for P3D. The Vertx DA62 works fine in v5 when it was designed for v4. I would expect PMDG to make any changes required to get their aircraft compatible with v6.

That’s assuming tweaks are required. Nothing is known yet about v6 so speculation is pointless.

Your post confuses me. Are you leaving P3D behind and moving to MSFS? Your several references to “you” and not “us” makes me believe you are.

Absolutely, which is why P3D will be a viable platform for multiple decades...just like FS9.  However, this thread was about wishing for V6.  Given the current market paradigm, I'm not sure I would wish for a V6, as it could make things worse.  As anzac1977 suggested, I think P3D entertainment users would be better off with more fixes and enhancements to V5, which is what I'd wish for. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by kingm56

[Ray Proudfoot 8,942]

5 minutes ago, kingm56 said:

Absolutely,

Is that your answer to my question of “Are you leaving P3D behind and moving to MSFS?” as it appears to be?

Who knows what v6 will bring? Let’s wait until we have some definitive news.

[kingm56 1,031]

4 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Is that your answer to my question of “Are you leaving P3D behind and moving to MSFS?” as it appears to be?

Who knows what v6 will bring? Let’s wait until we have some definitive news.

My apologies...that was my answer to P3D still being a viable platform, which I believe it is for some users.  I would never presume to tell ANYONE what sim they should use.  However, it's absolutely not a viable market for third-party vendors, which really is no longer debatable.  I do disagree that we don't know what V6 will entail; we've had almost 13 years and 5 releases from LM; I think we can make an educated guess on V6 advancements, as least as it implies to technological advancements and/or independency from the ESP core engine.  I suspect that's exactly what the bulk of third-party developers did when they decided to leave the P3D market space.  Anyway, fruitful conversation, Ray.  

[Christopher Low 5,352]

Whilst I agree that backwards compatibility is important for Lockheed Martin's primary target market, I do question how long that can continue. There is only so much you can do to upgrade and enhance a product before it needs to be replaced entirely. I mean, do we really believe that Lockheed Martin will release new versions of P3D forever? One day (sooner or later), they will have to start from scratch. That day could be a lot sooner than anyone thinks.

[CO2Neutral 278]

11 hours ago, kingm56 said:

I think P3D entertainment users would be better off with more fixes and enhancements to V5, which is what I'd wish for. 

So you do want V6?

You've made many statements without quantified evidence:

1.  Using Blackshark.ai wouldn't obsolete anything, please read up on the SDK to understand the implications.

2.  Technology advancements doesn't change a texture/material it allows for additional definitions of a material and how how it reacts to lights, reflections, shadows ... this is NOT an exclusive process.

3.  There are 1000's of 3rd party developers, very few have have actually indicated they have "decided to leave the P3D market space".  Have you contact 1000's of developers?  What I've seen/read is that some developers are focusing on MSFS products which is definitely NOT the same as "decided to leave".  If you believe MSFS is the final resting place for flight simulation, then you are mistaken, there is always opportunity in the arena be it consumer or commercial.

4.  What defines the future of a product is the strength of it's SDK and it's ability to adapt to new hardware/technologies and not be restricted by a gaming console.

5.  Market share comes and goes, I would expect consumer shifts to embrace a UE5 based flight simulator and then something after that as the cycle would continue.

 

[him225 51]

On 12/21/2022 at 12:35 AM, anzac1977 said:

If LM just released an update that fixed up EA clouds and allowed them to have local not global patterns I would be happy.

Or just implement what ever changes Hifi needs to improve their weather simulation with true sky.

Also they really need to remove the moon illusion effect, size variation of sun and moon and nearing horizons becomes huge, makes it feel like in a fantasy role playing game.

The dawn/dusk light amount and change rate also needs to be fixed, while the sun sets/rises at the correct times, the light quantity drop/increase from sun hiding behind horizon is pretty fast kind of like a light bulb turning on/off making day light shorter by about 30 minutes in both. In real world and also in FSX - p3dv4 some light is present when the sun is just below horizon.

[Juliett Alfa Romeo 530]

The whole EA thing has been very poorly applied. I often miss the skies and light of v4.

I would also prefer v5.4 than v6.

[fluffyflops 1,856]

On 12/20/2022 at 8:40 PM, Christopher Low said:

Whilst I agree that backwards compatibility is important for Lockheed Martin's primary target market, I do question how long that can continue. There is only so much you can do to upgrade and enhance a product before it needs to be replaced entirely. I mean, do we really believe that Lockheed Martin will release new versions of P3D forever? One day (sooner or later), they will have to start from scratch. That day could be a lot sooner than anyone thinks.

We don’t agree on much Chris, but on this you’re correct in my opinion..

For example the qw787 seems to not be arriving in ms2020 , so why would they waste time on a v6 version.

pmdg has its new user base at ms2020, why would they waste time with v6

same as aerosoft 330, they never bothered to fix it after 2 plus years in v5 why bother in v6

the boys at fsl might go for it, but I doubt the above would. Let’s see

[fluffyflops 1,856]

On 12/20/2022 at 1:09 AM, FBW737 said:

Military contractors really get their nickers in a twist if they don't get their holiday excitement and anticipation for new toys fulfilled. They might even drone your house if they are are on the naughty list and the P3D team will end up being the lump of smoking coal, so I say delivery is immanent!

There’s a seemingly open cheque book now too. Especially after last weeks visitor. They will get their holiday excitement don’t you worry.

[cyyzrwy24 127]

On 12/20/2022 at 1:49 PM, kingm56 said:

This isn't a guess as several vendors have openly stated they've ceased ALL development for P3D products.

We already read that before...yet there is a ton of support here and with P3D. But what many missed is, that we don't share same interests. Some prefer just GA and MSFS is maybe perfect for that. Some of us prefer long IFR flights simulating real world aviation with all add-ons available with P3D, that actually works. As we know by now (and still waiting), dynamic is still way off, there are still many issues to be solved and there are many questions not answered, list is to long to mention. Until than, MSFS and "big money offered to developers" and that  "everything ceased for P3D" doesn't mean nothing to many people. As I see it that is business decision for many developers. 

But for us here nothing changes. Just occasional and sudden "P3D hater" who want's to steer people to something that he thinks is better and where future is....  Maybe is, but for now, MSFS is far off. I am following very closely MSFS development and once gets close to what we have I will be first one to jump. But definitely not "on line" All this creates some useless debate. Because, there is still no definition about "BEST" of anything. 

However many of us are eager to see new P3D development and upgrade/update. LM for years provided us with decent software and we all enjoyed thousands of hrs of unbelievable fun. Let's see if they are going to surprise us in coming months.

Mary Xmas and Happy holidays to all of you!👍 

Edited December 26, 2022 by cyyzrwy24

[kingm56 1,031]

6 hours ago, cyyzrwy24 said:

We already read that before...yet there is a ton of support here and with P3D. But what many missed is, that we don't share same interests. Some prefer just GA and MSFS is maybe perfect for that. Some of us prefer long IFR flights simulating real world aviation with all add-ons available with P3D, that actually works. As we know by now (and still waiting), dynamic is still way off, there are still many issues to be solved and there are many questions not answered, list is to long to mention. Until than, MSFS and "big money offered to developers" and that  "everything ceased for P3D" doesn't mean nothing to many people. As I see it that is business decision for many developers. 

But for us here nothing changes. Just occasional and sudden "P3D hater" who want's to steer people to something that he thinks is better and where future is....  Maybe is, but for now, MSFS is far off. I am following very closely MSFS development and once gets close to what we have I will be first one to jump. But definitely not "on line" All this creates some useless debate. Because, there is still no definition about "BEST" of anything. 

However many of us are eager to see new P3D development and upgrade/update. LM for years provided us with decent software and we all enjoyed thousands of hrs of unbelievable fun. Let's see if they are going to surprise us in coming months.

Mary Xmas and Happy holidays to all of you!👍 

I ‘m curious, what does P3D do that MSFS doesn’t?  The notion MSFS is  a VFR/GA sim was proven a fairy tail long ago.  Yes, some complex long haulers are still in development, but that has nothing to do with the base sim. In short, your argument Is tired, old and grossly inaccurate.  There are not “many issues to solve” and “problems to be worked out.” That’s a hyperbolic statement that has no basis in reality.  If you’re going to make said statement, you should quantify it with facts.  You’re offering nothing but an abstract statement about there being too many to list, or an Implicit statement about many addon not working correctly…both are outright fabrications.  I just flew vatsims cross the pond; so, I’m curious to uncover these issues that prevent simmers from performing long haul flights   Now, if you have a favorite addon like the QW787 or PMDG 747, I get it.  Yet, this has nothing to do with the sims capabilities  

There’s also not a ‘ton of support’ for P3D    Every single objective data point says P3D has shrunk to FSX and Xplane 10 market share.  This notion was just reinforced through Flight Sims largest survey.  Again, there was just an aircraft released for P3D…it generated 4 whole pages of interest.  That alone directly refuted the notion “there are ton of support.”   P3D will absolutely continue to be near-and-dear to several simmers; just like FS9 and FSX. I have no doubt P3D will be used for the next decade, or more. However, the market is gone; without an active market, there won’t be third party addon   Without addons, P3D is a very subpar sim; thus. the future is already somewhat resolved   

Finally, I never made any statements about what sim is best   Who am I to tell ANYONE what sim is best?  That’s up to you.  All I did was make a statement of fact, which illicited an emotional response from you   That facts are, Just Flight stopped p3d development midway through development of two aircraft, which means the market is so small, they opted to forgo invested resources. Aerosoft is done with P3D, and PMDG has their slate full for at least the next two years.  This is just the tip of the ice berg, I could go on; but these are thd biggest names in flight sim, and they’re telling you there’s no market. P3D V6 isnt going to change that paradigm. In ordered to do so, they would have to decouple themselves from ESP, which they have a license for…it doesn’t make financial sense for them to do so.  Plus, if they did, it would break backwards compatibility, which nullifies the reason you’re using P3D to begin with.  

Again, I am not telling you what sim to use…that’s up to you   However, if you’re going to criticize a product, or a post, you should avoid fabricating statement (ie there being too many problems for you to list).  
 

btw, without an active revenue stream, how much longer do you think HiFI will keep their servers active? Tell me, does P3D have the ability to generate real time weather? 

 

 

 

Edited December 27, 2022 by kingm56