P3Ds future: I prefer facts - the more, the merrier!

[UrgentSiesta 920]

^{DISCLAIMER: This is NOT a discussion about the "death" of P3D. It's a discussion about what path forward for the sim, and perhaps what that could hold for those of us who still like to use it.}

^{So, I think this could be a worthwhile discussion - if we keep our wits about us. But we're skating on very thin ice here, folks - let's keep it mature, respectful, and most importantly: UNLOCKED, please!}

There was a recent thread here in the P3D forum that contained some questionable as well as some incontrovertibly incorrect assertions. And I'd like to start by straightening some of those out.

Quote

Developers have not abandoned P3D - some have chosen to focus on MSFS (until it inevitably fails) and others are still producing updates for P3D such as iFly, TFDi, PMDG, FSLabs, etce etc. Name me a top flight developer that has abandoned P3D please?

(you left out Majestic as a continuing supporter 🙂 )

Um...MilViz/BlackBird Sims, for one. And very publicly at that. They stated that ALL of their P3D/FSX consumer addons will no longer receive updates, patches or even support. And for the die hards among us, they even put them all on permanently on sale for 50% off.

Just Flight have just publicly cancelled development of their P3D Fokker, Airbus and 747, and announced they're moving to MSFS-only. Updates for ESP and X-Plane are nowhere to be found.

Aerosoft have also very publicly stated they will no longer develop for P3D/FSX, and that support/patches will be extremely limited, if at all.

Aeroplane Heaven have also halted ESP development AND have made ALL their ESP addons available for free (thru Orbx).

India Foxt Echo have publicly abandoned BOTH P3D and X-Plane, and have made all their addons available for $0 to everyone.

Similarly, Sim Skunk Works have stated they're out, too. And have also made their entire ESP collection free to download.

Sim Works Studios' F-4 Phantom has disappeared from their site and only seems to be available thru Aerosoft, and only v5.0 compatible at that. No new P3D addons available or discussed.

And scores of scenery developers have either announced cessation of development or de facto stopped releasing ESP products/updates. Even Orbx have cancelled OpenLC Asia, and have drastically cut back on other ESP scenery launches.

 

Quote

Nothing is known yet about v6 so speculation is pointless.

From Lockheed Martin, via Sergio @ HeliSimmer:

"Prepar3D has over a decade of continuous development and improvements supported by a robust third party ecosystem that will continue into the future.

We carefully consider the impacts on all product stakeholders when road mapping our products, and we have no plans to make major architectural changes that would undermine existing third party add-on compatibility with the platform."

It is also a fact that LM is either developing a NEW sim based on Unreal Engine, or looking to expand/enhance P3D's usability across a wider spectrum of scenarios (my $ goes to the latter):

https://www.lockheedmartin.com/en-us/news/features/2022/gaming-technology-the-future-of-training.html

 

Quote

Q: When is P3D v6 coming? A: I'm guessing never. It would be too little too late.

There is incontrovertible evidence that v6 is already in active Beta. There was a publicly accessible v6B registration page available for awhile, and there are several articles discussing the fact, e.g.: https://cruiselevel.de/p3d-v6-in-den-startloechern/

I myself visited the pages before they were further moved/obfuscated: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Myl37XLplYQP0uNDCpQk7PB3PAqA6BJL/view?usp=sharing

So v6 IS in fact out there, AND is in Beta. I can't imagine LM wouldn't continue to offer it to consumers in the well-established manner. 

Quote

LM do not rely on the types of us for commercial success, they maintain P3D for their commercial customers who need flight training on military aircraft. They would continue to develop it even if there were zero non commercial users.

This is absolutely correct: 

 

MilViz (not BlackBird Sims), continues to develop in P3D for the .Mil/.Gov:
https://milvizusa.com/aircraft/military/

And as you mentioned previously, there is a cadre of top devs who either are definitely or very likely to continue on with their consumer P3D product lines.

And even I, who keep saying i'm going to continue flying P3D but NOT spend any more $ on it, am occasionally highly interested in recent addons such as 

So, with all that, there IS hope!

What facts, and just as importantly, what paths forward do you see for P3D?

 

Edited January 1, 2023 by UrgentSiesta
more evidence in favor

[hs118 707]

Also, A2A is actively working on defense contracts in P3D.

[CapnOz 109]

FSLabs are producing and developing two aircraft for P3d V5 at the moment. One is due within a few months.

 

[d.tsakiris 417]

Orbx hasn't canceled OpenLC Asia, but development is on hold, as the developer is from Ukraine.

9 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

And scores of scenery developers

I don't know about “scores“...

I also am convinced v6 is underway, and, personally, I am hoping for comprehensive backward-compatibility, so I can use the thousands of add-ons available out there.

[Ian S 214]

1 hour ago, d.tsakiris said:

I am hoping for comprehensive backward-compatibility, so I can use the thousands of add-ons available out there.

I think that is the key to the success of P3D v6

[rocketlaunch 614]

I think the extensive backwards compatibility that P3D development continues to peruse has been one of the main limiting factors for real forward progress. However, I still maintain that LM does not care about the consumer market. Their development plan is based on their commercial customers, we just happen to be a fluke that resulted when there was a complete vacuum in the flight sim market. This is no longer the case.  

[Ray Proudfoot 8,932]

I only have four aircraft I fly in v5. PMDG73x, Xtreme Prototypes Lear 45, Vertx DA62 and the Carenado PC12. To that can be added FSL Concorde in the next few months.

I’m reasonably proficient at flying each of them. The Lear and Concorde are the most challenging but if I can manage to land them smoothly I’m happy.

When it comes to airports I have a healthy collection spread around the planet. I fly in Europe, North and Central America plus the Caribbean, the Far East and Australasia. I don’t envisage many, if any, being broken by v6.

I’m also quite happy to arrive and depart from default airports if it means I can utilise a purchased airport. I recently bought Cape Town but with no other 3rd party airport close using defaults is necessary for a 1 hour hop. Not a problem. The taxiways and runways are identical to 3rd party ones and GSX provides jetways and ancillary vehicles.

AIG has populated every airport with great looking Ai. I’m never alone.

Radar Contact v4 continues to provide excellent ATC and I’m looking forward to hearing my callsign of Speedbird Concorde in v5. The only ATC program that has it.

ChasePlane gives me custom views and is so easy to use.

Active Sky has historical weather so wherever I fly in the world I can depart in daylight with correct weather. The banding issue with EA Off has been solved by @Bob Scottand is greatly appreciated.

The coastlines in v5 have been improved hugely for the entire planet. So much so I no longer need UTX addons to enhance the ground scenery.

In short, I have everything I need for enjoyable flights even with v5.3. I’ll probably replace my 4 year-old computer this year so I can maximise evening and night time flying. One flight I’m looking forward to is an early evening departure from LHR in Concorde for JFK and then seeing the sun rise in the west. 😁

As far as I’m concerned the future for P3D remains bright.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,932]

10 minutes ago, rocketlaunch said:

I think the extensive backwards compatibility that P3D development continues to peruse has been one of the main limiting factors for real forward progress. However, I still maintain that LM does not care about the consumer market. Their development plan is based on their commercial customers, we just happen to be a fluke that resulted when there was a complete vacuum in the flight sim market. This is no longer the case.  

Respectfully, I disagree. They do consider us by maintaining backward compatibility. If their commercial customers just used the default simulator LM could change it with every new version. But they don’t. I can only guess they respect the many loyal customers who have stayed with them.

Yes, fewer than a few years ago for obvious reasons but there’s still a significant number of serious pilots who like stability and continuity. The Navigraph survey is not the whole picture.

[dpergau 137]

@Ray Proudfoot if you’re ever interested in adding an aircraft I could not recommend the majestic Q400 enough. By far my favourite addon in P3D.  I too have the Xtreme prototypes Learjet but I haven’t gotten my head wrapped around the product yet. Any tips? I continue to review the manuals. I suppose I just need to put more time and effort into it. One thing I’d like to have access to is updated AIRAC data for the RXP GTN750 but that’s impossible without a subscription.  With all the investment I’ve made in P3D addons I will continue to use it for the long term. 
 

Dan

Edited January 2, 2023 by dpergau

[Ray Proudfoot 8,932]

@dpergau, I’ve considered the Q400 but for whatever reasons it doesn’t appeal. It’s an excellent aircraft no doubt but I value speed so anything that can’t manage Mach 0.8 for IFR I tend to ignore.

Regarding the XP Lear it has enormous power and you’ll soon overspeed on climb unless you manage the throttles carefully. Throttle back to around 75-80% and adjust climb rate to not exceed 300kts. I use manual throttles until reaching Mach 0.7 / FL290 then turn on Mach Hold. When reaching cruise disengage Mach Hold and increase power until Mach 0.82 then re-engage Mach Hold.

I don’t have the RXP GTN750 as I use Aivlasoft’s EFB on a separate PC/monitor.

[micstatic 4,316]

another vote for the Q400.  A lot to learn, but the rewards are very high.  For a turboprop it's a speedster.  I prefer short flights (2 hrs tops), and there are tons of city pairs.  That was the last plane I learned in p3d, and by far the most satisfying one in my hangar. 

[neilhewitt 493]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

If their commercial customers just used the default simulator LM could change it with every new version.

I think their commercial customers tend not to upgrade a working simulator unless there's a clear reason (and budget) for doing so. The software is usually tightly integrated with the hardware and upgrading the sim is therefore a big job. One of the reasons Mindstar has continually given for still not having a 64-bit version of their G1000 and thus being limited to P3D v3 and below is that the vast majority of their commercial customers are still running on 32-bit and so it's not worth their while investing the time to develop it for their much smaller hobbyist customer base. 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,932]

Neil, I'm shocked that so many customers of MindStar are still on v3. I put up with the pretty dreadful graphics simply to keep VAS under control. That sim is only used for FSL Concorde so it's not far from being uninstalled.

[level7 171]

12 hours ago, hs118 said:

Also, A2A is actively working on defense contracts in P3D.

Not any new ones for the past 2 years according to their recent update.

[d.tsakiris 417]

1 hour ago, rocketlaunch said:

I think the extensive backwards compatibility that P3D development continues to peruse has been one of the main limiting factors for real forward progress.

Maybe, but consider this: Even a brand-new sim is only brand-new for a while. What to do when updates are necessary? The developer has to find a balance between progress and compatibility. Personally, I prefer LM's approach.