P3Ds future: I prefer facts - the more, the merrier!

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

Just now, Chapstick said:

Because MSFS is the reason the P3D market is in the gutter and comparisons are inevitable. 

No they’re not. In my extensive post earlier in this topic I mentioned all the good things that makes P3D so enjoyable for me and several agreed with me.

Another poster made similar comments to you and I asked him if he still flew P3D. He hasn’t answered that question. So I’ll ask you. Do you still fly P3D? Not own it, not have it installed. Actually fly it.

Because if you don’t what are you doing in this topic?

[chapstick 2,757]

12 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Do you still fly P3D? Not own it, not have it installed. Actually fly it.

Yes. 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

6 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

Yes. 

Okay so you're in the same boat as the rest of us. I'd rather look at P3D as half-full than half-empty. So what if fewer developers are creating stuff for P3D? There's a lot of compatible software still available.

[simfan1983 185]

It's also not really as if most of the the top flight developers are creating new aircraft for MSFS - they are currently trying to reproduce the depth of current P3D and X-Plane aircraft systems and flight models in MSFS. PMDG haven't really produced anything major for P3D for years, and they don't really need to given the quality of current stable. I don't criticise them in the least for doing this so long as they continue to support their existing products. New developers will and are stepping into the breach with new, more competitively priced P3D and X-Plane offerings to fill the relatively few gaps that still remain.

The only thing I personally would like to see in P3D is a decent long haul Airbus. I wouldn't purchase the Aerosoft even before they made a few ridiculous posts about P3D. Probably not alone in never regarding them as a top flight aeroplane developer in the PMDG, A2A and FSlabs league. My other wish list aircraft is Concorde - and that is on its way from FSLabs.

I have said this before and stand by it - I would not be at all surprised  if P3D is around long after MS pull the plug again or start charging properly for their downloads and streaming. It's not glass half full for me, I'm happy with P3D and will be even more happy with some tweaks to EA and volumetric clouds and the odd scenery update / performance tweak.

[Matchstick 1,886]

35 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Okay so you're in the same boat as the rest of us. I'd rather look at P3D as half-full than half-empty. So what if fewer developers are creating stuff for P3D? There's a lot of compatible software still available.

The risk there is a change in an upcoming version to P3D could break that compatibility.

That's fine if the dev is still committed to P3D and can update it but as more devs move , for whatever reason, you one day risk facing the choice between giving up content you've enjoyed or being restricted to a platform without an upgrade path.

[Papacoach 75]

I still invest nearly all of my time in P3Dv5. I get so much immersion from it after tweaking the platform for so long it takes a concerted effort to fire up anything else. DCS and MSFS are absolutely beautiful. Assetto Corsa Comp, Rfactor, the F1 series are all excellent too. I'm neglecting these other fantastic sims because I simply don't have enough time to enjoy them all. 

In P3D I have more payware aircraft and scenery than I can do justice to. I'm often surprised by the beauty and experience flying into an airport I haven't visited in forever. It really is remarkable how far this hobby has come in the 25 years I've been enjoying it. I don't even need an upgrade path at this point. Although I'm always eager to see what's next. 

I am certain about my passion for P3D as much as others are for the sims they enjoy most. I can appreciate their passion because I know what it feels like. Comparison is foolish imho. We can all be certain without the need to be right!!! 

Let's agree that this thread is about what the future may hold for Prepar3d. Let's also agree that regardless of personal sim loyalty or whatever, the future is bright for us all. Something excellent is right around the corner.

I look forward to seeing the next iteration in sim immersion, but it doesn't mean I'll buy into it immediately at the level I invested in the Prepar3d I currently use. Clearly I've wasted a ton of money in my past on things that have become almost useless. lolol

Apologies for the rant.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

37 minutes ago, Matchstick said:

The risk there is a change in an upcoming version to P3D could break that compatibility.

That's fine if the dev is still committed to P3D and can update it but as more devs move , for whatever reason, you one day risk facing the choice between giving up content you've enjoyed or being restricted to a platform without an upgrade path.

Let’s wait until those under an NDA can speak. LM have openly said they try to maintain backward compatibility. The downside of that means there may not be anything transformative in v6. It may come with v7 or a separate product. By then we may feel other sims have sufficiently matured to be worth considering or decide to start afresh with what LM can offer.

I was able to fool the Vertx DA62 installer to accept my P3Dv5 folder actually contained v4 so I can use that aircraft in a sim it wasn’t designed for. Keep your chin up. 😉

[F737MAX 5,598]

22 hours ago, simfan1983 said:

[...] MS either plug the plug or start charging properly for their streaming costs.

26 minutes ago, simfan1983 said:

I have said this before and stand by it - I would not be at all surprised  if P3D is around long after MS pull the plug again or start charging properly for their downloads and streaming.

  Congratulations. That point now appears in the same thread, twice, in less than 24 hours.
As has been pointed out for a long time now, the way MS make their money doesn't come from charging from streaming, they like subscriptions. The Game Pass provides them with that, plus they also take a nice commission from the sales of each add-on in the MSFS Market Place.
They could pull the plug, but there's a strong feeling that Asobo and MS are aiming for something much bigger than just MSFS for the entertainment market.

 

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Do you still fly P3D? Not own it, not have it installed. Actually fly it.

Because if you don’t what are you doing in this topic?

Because just like when 'the other sim' was in alpha, I (and others) have a valid interest in seeing what the future holds for the platform.
In this instance, can LM produce a compelling reason for me to purchase an alternative to what I currently use?

Or should everyone only discuss products that they own and use?
If so, no chat is to be permitted about a 64-bit Concorde, nor a modern add-on version of a 767, nor indeed regrading a hypothetical future version of P3D. Would become rather quiet on the forums if that were the case, no? 😉

 

21 minutes ago, Papacoach said:

In P3D I have more payware aircraft and scenery than I can do justice to.

Likewise, yet the prospect of a full reinstall following a hardware change and just one CTD too many without explanation pushed me to spend more time in 'the other sim'. Which fortunately happened just after it received notable improvements to its base features.

BTW, that model of aeroplane in your pic still elicits an unfavourable reaction for me…

[simfan1983 185]

5 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

Congratulations. That point now appears in the same thread, twice, in less than 24 hours.

Thank you. Glad the message is getting across!

6 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

As has been pointed out for a long time now, the way MS make their money doesn't come from charging from streaming, they like subscriptions. The Game Pass provides them with that, plus they also take a nice commission from the sales of each add-on in the MSFS Market Place.

Fully aware of that thank you though. I don't personally believe that comes close to covering the development and running costs.

7 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

They could pull the plug, but there's a strong feeling that Asobo and MS are aiming for something much bigger than just MSFS for the entertainment market.

Until they aren't due to change of management.

LM have a totally different model - they need P3D to train pilots. Only time will tell who is right.

[Papacoach 75]

17 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

  Likewise, yet the prospect of a full reinstall following a hardware change and just one CTD too many without explanation pushed me to spend more time in 'the other sim'. Which fortunately happened just after it received notable improvements to its base features.

BTW, that model of aeroplane in your pic still elicits an unfavourable reaction for me…

Sorry to hear your experience pushed you away. Although, I'm sure you are enjoying the change.

The T7 is one of the sexiest aircrafts ever made imho. I flew the CS version before investing in pmdg. So it would be unlikely for me to think unfavorably about the upgrade. lolol

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

16 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

Because just like when 'the other sim' was in alpha, I (and others) have a valid interest in seeing what the future holds for the platform.
In this instance, can LM produce a compelling reason for me to purchase an alternative to what I currently use?

Or should everyone only discuss products that they own and use?
If so, no chat is to be permitted about a 64-bit Concorde, nor a modern add-on version of a 767, nor indeed regrading a hypothetical future version of P3D. Would become rather quiet on the forums if that were the case, no? 😉

You’ve probably noticed that several topics have been locked in this forum because the discussion degenerated into a battle of what sim was better. So far that hasn’t happened in this one and hopefully that remains the case.

I find it irritating when people chime in here with negative comments about a sim they have abandoned in favour of another. It causes annoyance and adds nothing to the debate. There’s nothing wrong with discussing products in the pipeline. I don’t know why you would think that was not acceptable.

And if they still own P3D but can’t find anything positive to say about it then silence is often the better option.

[F737MAX 5,598]

4 minutes ago, Papacoach said:

Sorry to hear your experience pushed you away. Although, I'm sure you are enjoying the change.

The T7 is one of the sexiest aircrafts ever made imho. I flew the CS version before investing in pmdg. So it would be unlikely for me to think unfavorably about the upgrade. lolol

No sim is flawless. Yet, I am happier overall using the other sim.
Each of them is a compromise. The 'best' one being the sim that scores highest based on what weighting *you* put on each element that a particular sim platform offers.

Ah, yes. I can understand why you like the PMDG 777 then… 😆

 

9 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I find it irritating when people chime in here with negative comments about a sim they have abandoned in favour of another. It causes annoyance and adds nothing to the debate. There’s nothing wrong with discussing products in the pipeline. I don’t know why you would think that was not acceptable.

And if they still own P3D but can’t find anything positive to say about it then silence is often the better option.

Negative comments are still feedback. If LM cared enough to entice all of us 'mass participant beta testers' for P3D back, they would have to offer something in v6 that:
a) Resolves long-standing issues in the platform
b) Was at least as feature rich and interesting as the flight sim platform with substantially the most amount of users.

I commented plenty of times on the MSFS sub-forums before I fully joined the 'dark side'. As an alpha tester, beta tester and day-1 purchaser, I felt I was able to pass comment on the state of the sim and its early flaws. That is despite the fact I didn't fly it for well over a year after the first week of its launch.
By the rules stated in your post from a couple of hours ago, I was wrong to do so. Likewise, it appears that I should not pass comment on a sim that I used almost daily for 5 years, just because I don't currently use it.

 

Feedback is critical to any business activity. A former customer is arguably an even better source of feedback than a current one.
While educational users may not figure heavily in the decision-making process at LM, a competent product manager would look at what is being said and try to incorporate as much feedback as possible into an upgraded product.
There are plenty of improvements that can be made to the platform without necessarily breaking the backward compatibility, nor move the sim's focus away from the needs of its primary user base. Let's hope LM are listening.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

14 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

Negative comments are still feedback. If LM cared enough to entice all of us 'mass participant beta testers' for P3D back, they would have to offer something in v6

Yes assuming the feedback was being read. I very much doubt LM read this forum. And whilst they’ll read their own they hardly ever reply. I almost fell off my chair when I reported taxiway signs on a taxiway and the reply was it was noted and fixed. Think of their boards as a one-way street.

17 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

I commented plenty of times on the MSFS sub-forums before I fully joined the 'dark side'. As an alpha tester, beta tester and day-1 purchaser, I felt I was able to pass comment on the state of the sim and its early flaws. That is despite the fact I didn't fly it for well over a year after the first week of its launch.
By the rules stated in your post from a couple of hours ago, I was wrong to do so. Likewise, it appears that I should not pass comment on a sim that I used almost daily for 5 years, just because I don't currently use it.

I don’t make rules, I just try to keep topics from descending into bad-mouthing with the obvious result. I’m simply trying to keep the discussion on topic and prevent yet another discussion being locked. I don’t see anything wrong with you commenting on another sim in early release either here or on the official forums.

You’re perfectly entitled to post on this topic if it’s relevant to the title. You’ve been around long enough to know what’s acceptable and what isn’t. Nothing in your posts is the least bit objectionable. Pity others can’t follow your example.

[d.tsakiris 418]

46 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

While educational users may not figure heavily in the decision-making process at LM, a competent product manager would look at what is being said and try to incorporate as much feedback as possible into an upgraded product.
There are plenty of improvements that can be made to the platform without necessarily breaking the backward compatibility, nor move the sim's focus away from the needs of its primary user base. Let's hope LM are listening.

I agree.

[Papacoach 75]

Personally, the prospect of UE5 for P3D is very exciting even if there is breakage in compatibility. I wouldn't be an early adopter on a large scale in that case similar to FS20, but would still be enthusiastic about the possibilities. 

Truesky has it's moments but probably wasn't the right choice ultimately. Maybe an experimental choice at the time. Maybe the next iteration is magic. Someone knows... I messed with all the settings in the VolumetricClouds.cfg to fix the look of TS and other aspects. Hours of trying combinations, and nothing worked. I gave up and went back to legacy clouds. Weather generation is arguably the Achilles heal of simming.

Definitely looking forward to hearing from the NDA clan when lifted!

Edited January 3, 2023 by Papacoach