P3Ds future: I prefer facts - the more, the merrier!

[chapstick 2,757]

50 minutes ago, Papacoach said:

Personally, the prospect of UE5 for P3D

You should probably temper your expectations as it's been all but confirmed that P3D V6 won't use UE5. LM said they aren't making major changes to the platform that would break compatibility. 

[Iadbound 211]

5 hours ago, d.tsakiris said:

Where do they state that? [PMDG is out of the P3D business at this point]

 

Ok.  Let me clarify this a bit.  PMDG is NOT making any new products for P3D.  There is not a single P3D item on its road map.  Indeed, PMDG has probably 2+ years of MSFS releases in progress or planned -- 737-900, 777 (multiple variants), 747 (multiple variants) and the 737 MAX options.  PMDG has not released an update of any significance (or of any kind that I can recall) for any P3D product since March 19, 2021 (yes I had to look that up).  And while PMDG is still using P3D to troubleshoot some issues it has in MSFS, PMDG has not pushed any of those MSFS updates that were applicable to P3D into P3D (e.g., part 1 of the LNAV update).  Now, in August 2022, RSR did suggest that that PMDG might push that LNAV update to the P3D NGXu line in a few weeks it never happened.  And no surprise because his bluster in August was referencing a June 2022 post from him where he stated:

"inevitably, our plan is to roll this new LFPM backward through our entire product catalog in Prepar3D as well. There is no defined schedule for doing this yet, as we are entirely committed to the MSFS dev cycle for the near term- but it is likely we will pop it into the P3D product lines in intermediate update cycles along the way. It is hard to predict a schedule for this until we get clear of the 737 release cycle at least."

It's now January and there is no update and no further mention of anything for P3D on that front. And only days ago, on December 30, 2022, RSR provided an "End of Year Update for PMDG 737 MSFS product line- and a few other short notes" message where he talked about stuff coming for up for 2023 -- and not a single item references P3D or is known to be coming for P3D.  And as I searched for any post from RSR regarding P3D, the last I could find is the one referenced above in August 2022.  

RSR has also repeatedly mentioned in interviews that P3D sales are more or less nonexistent at this point for PMDG -- no surprise since they haven't put anything new out or made promised updates to old products such as the 777 VC update. So while PMDG has not officially exited the P3D market -- and why would it before it rolls out the 777 and 747 in MSFS -- I feel pretty comfortable saying that PMDG is NOT developing for the P3D at this point.

Edited January 3, 2023 by Iadbound

[Ray Proudfoot 8,930]

@Papacoach, I could accept a break from ESP compatibility if the advantages were great enough. I’ve had many of my airports for several years so I’ve had my money’s worth.

Aircraft are harder to justify dropping especially expensive ones and I anticipate the FSL Concorde will be the most expensive.

The crux is whether the new sim would attract attention from developers. The key is the ease with which aircraft and airports can be developed. And whether the like of Aivlasoft would adapt EFB and of course whether the Swiss Army knife that is FSUIPC would be created. Far more than I can list here but if the new sim was a serious competitor to the existing ones then who knows.

Whether LM decide TS needs more work may be key to v6 popularity. We shouldn’t have too long to wait.

[Papacoach 75]

19 minutes ago, Chapstick said:

You should probably temper your expectations as it's been all but confirmed that P3D V6 won't use UE5. LM said they aren't making major changes to the platform that would break compatibility. 

LOL. I'm too old for expectations... 

[psolk 3,037]

25 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Papacoach, I could accept a break from ESP compatibility if the advantages were great enough. I’ve had many of my airports for several years so I’ve had my money’s worth.

Aircraft are harder to justify dropping especially expensive ones and I anticipate the FSL Concorde will be the most expensive.

The crux is whether the new sim would attract attention from developers. The key is the ease with which aircraft and airports can be developed. And whether the like of Aivlasoft would adapt EFB and of course whether the Swiss Army knife that is FSUIPC would be created. Far more than I can list here but if the new sim was a serious competitor to the existing ones then who knows.

Whether LM decide TS needs more work may be key to v6 popularity. We shouldn’t have too long to wait.

The problem with that in my opinion is there is very little chance if they break from the ESP platform that it will be on par with "everything" P3D currently offers with all of it's add-ons so it is the exact same situation as the "other" sim but would probably have more commercially ready features akin to home cockpit, instructor control stations and true "full world" simulation.   So if it breaks backwards compatibility in order to move to Unreal then we are back to waiting for all our add-ons and dependant upon developers overcoming those teething pains of a new platform again...  P3D is not a flight simulator it is a visual simulation platform by definition so who knows what would change with a full world re-write but I'd be more optimistic to LM having a fallback offline mode as well due to clients with airgapped networks.  

I'd am more excited about the enhancements V5.x or V6 will bring than a complete re-write which leaves us back at square 1 but that is just me personally. 

 

[shivers9 1,174]

I see the discussion in almost every thread about a new sim version and backward compat for add ons. Yea I get it that we all hate to start spending money again. When you think about it the money we spend on scenery and airplanes is pretty cheap compared to other hobbies and interest. Real Life flying comes to mind, golf, fishing boat and expenses, sailboats, race cars, ham radio just to name a few that come to mind. I live in a area that has Hurricanes and have had to restart with a lot of hobbies over the years and thrust me they are not completely paid for by the insurance companies. 

[d.tsakiris 417]

39 minutes ago, Iadbound said:

I feel pretty comfortable saying that PMDG is NOT developing for the P3D at this point.

You might be right, but that's still a distinctively different message than what you wrote before. Anyway, I think another (better) way to look at the situation is that all those add-ons are already available for P3D.

I also ask myself if development progress was really any faster and if releases generally (i.e. PMDG and also other devs) were really significally more frequent before MSFS showed up. I think we might have a slightly idealized memory of how things were. We've been making fun of broken deadlines since devs have been making them...

Edited January 3, 2023 by d.tsakiris

[Papacoach 75]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@Papacoach, I could accept a break from ESP compatibility if the advantages were great enough. I’ve had many of my airports for several years so I’ve had my money’s worth.

Aircraft are harder to justify dropping especially expensive ones and I anticipate the FSL Concorde will be the most expensive.

The crux is whether the new sim would attract attention from developers. The key is the ease with which aircraft and airports can be developed. And whether the like of Aivlasoft would adapt EFB and of course whether the Swiss Army knife that is FSUIPC would be created. Far more than I can list here but if the new sim was a serious competitor to the existing ones then who knows.

Whether LM decide TS needs more work may be key to v6 popularity. We shouldn’t have too long to wait.

Yes, aircraft and key utilities are so valuable to maintain, totally agree.

SDK philosophy is moving toward accessibility because of the generations coming after us(boomer) imho. I'm not so sure that breaking compatibility is as vital as creating accessibility. Saas companies break compatibility to sell "new and better" feature sets, and most customers buy in without too much fuss. Of course there is a limit to what you choose to break. Core platform functionality would be unwise. 

To finish the thought...  LM did remarkably well with ESP. I'm satisfied. But I would welcome enhancements of course. A rewrite is inevitable in order to innovate, and wouldn't be a problem for most because it is bound to be better. 

 

@shivers9  Just saw your post. Ditto...

Edited January 3, 2023 by Papacoach

[tamba765 54]

     I haven't seen an update for any of my P3D Orbx, Flight Beam, Imaginesim, Fly Tampa, Tropicalsim, Taxi2Gate, MK- Studios, or any of the many other scenery and aircraft products that I own for a long long time.  This tells me that at this point, V6 is nothing more than a pipe dream and wishful thinking. There's a lot of chatter and speculation in numerous forums, but that's about it. I've seen nothing official that absolutely convinces me a new P3D version is on the way any time soon, if at all. I know I'll catch a lot of flak for saying this, but that's just how I see it. So, go ahead and quote me and tell me how wrong I am. I hear that from my wife every day.

     I do, however, use P3Dv5.3, and it works well with all my scenery and weather addons. I fly large Boeings almost exclusively, as I did for many years in the real world, so I feel this is by far the best platform available for this type of flying. Stay safe!

[Ray Proudfoot 8,930]

42 minutes ago, psolk said:

So if it breaks backwards compatibility in order to move to Unreal then we are back to waiting for all our add-ons and dependant upon developers overcoming those teething pains of a new platform again..

Agreed but the key to getting developers onboard is the completeness of the SDK. LM have been great so far so fingers crossed.

27 minutes ago, Papacoach said:

Saas companies break compatibility to sell "new and better" feature sets, and most customers buy in without too much fuss.

Not sure what Saas companies are but see above. A fully featured SDK and quality design tools are the key to attracting developers. One can but hope.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,930]

7 minutes ago, tamba765 said:

This tells me that at this point, V6 is nothing more than a pipe dream and wishful thinking. 

Never heard of a Non Disclosure Agreement? 😉

[Papacoach 75]

3 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Not sure what Saas companies are but see above. A fully featured SDK and quality design tools are the key to attracting developers. One can but hope.

Software as a Service.

Some day I will want to retire Prepar3d, but it may never be a need. My wife will probably threaten me to retire my hobby first!

[F737MAX 5,552]

47 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

I see the discussion in almost every thread about a new sim version and backward compat for add ons. Yea I get it that we all hate to start spending money again.

Don't forget, it's not just home users that hate spending money again.

There needs to be a significant benefit for all the commercial users (and even the various military users) to give up the add-ons that work in P3D right now. The commercial licences for P3D and for the third party add-ons won't have been cheap.

A cost-benefit analysis would have to be run by each commercial user (if this assumed break in compatibility comes to pass) to verify whether P3Dv6's new features justifies a big capital outlay for both the new version and any compatible products.

[tamba765 54]

Yes, Ray I've heard of NDAs. I'm a beta tester for a company mentioned in this topic several times. No need to be condescending.  

Edited January 3, 2023 by tamba765

[Ray Proudfoot 8,930]

34 minutes ago, tamba765 said:

Yes, Ray I've heard of NDAs. I'm a beta tester for a company mentioned in this topic several times. No need to be condescending.  

That wasn’t my intention, sorry. Be assured v6 is coming.