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Fenix A320 vs FsLabs

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2 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Obviously you never used MSFS yourself otherwise you couldn't make such a daring statement. The cockpit textures alone make a world of difference. You see not much else than that during cruise at FL500 all the time. And it makes P3D look, well, "outdated".

Only the FS Labs developers have seen the look of Concorde in MSFS. Doesn’t the look rather depend on the skill of the team assigned to create the flight deck?

I take it you haven’t seen the VC of the P3D version.

A nicer looking flight deck doesn’t change how it flies. And it doesn’t cruise at FL500. The supersonic climb is continuous until either FL600 is reached (rarely) or it’s time to slow down and go down.

 


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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2 hours ago, chapstick said:

You can get much higher fidelity out of MSFS in terms of modeling, textures, and lighting than P3D without a massive hit to perf.

I know it's verging on heresy to say this on this sub-forum, however a not insignificant difference in MSFS' performance advantage compared to the other flight sims is due to shorter LODs, less detail and fewer objects at greater distances.

See this table below:spacer.png

With your settings at TLOD 100 and vegetation quality set at 'high', draw distance is just 11.3 km. In P3D, I had autogen draw distance set at more than double that at 24 km.

Scenery draw distance in MSFS isn't as good either. In P3D, I could see cities at upto 53 km (30 mi) away. In MSFS, only 2 or 3 (if any?) high-rise buildings in Denver are visible from KDEN, only some 29½ km (18 mi) distance.

There were also plenty of complaints post-SU5 for dumbing down the sim's visuals for performance:

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/performance-at-the-expense-of-visual-quality/431324

https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/terrain-lod-vs-object-lod-vs-pop-in-in-su5/432091

https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/615040-draw-distance-msfs-a-year-later/

And I can still drag down performance to less than 25 FPS without trying too hard.

 

I don't want to neg too hard on MSFS, there's plenty that is *far, far* better than my experience in P3D (lighting, flight modelling, omnipresent photoscenery, higher quality airliners, more detailed scenery, the list goes on...). I'd just like people not to evangelise MSFS as a near-perfect sim. It's still a rough diamond.

Edited by F737MAX
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13 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

the delta wing acts like a huge brake at low speeds.

It's really the AoA that creates the drag (same thing happens in Mirage 2000 at any speed) but that's all part of the fun with deltas 🙂

Edited by UrgentSiesta

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39 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Only the FS Labs developers have seen the look of Concorde in MSFS. Doesn’t the look rather depend on the skill of the team assigned to create the flight deck?

No. Even the best developer can't make a cockpit in P3D look as good as the average developer can in MSFS.

 

Quote

I take it you haven’t seen the VC of the P3D version.

Of course I have, I used P3D and the FSL A320 for many years.

 

Edited by RALF9636
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16 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

I'd just like people not to evangelise MSFS as a near-perfect sim.

Good thing my post wasn't coming anywhere close to evangelizing, I guess. I fully agree that the low draw distance needs to be improved. 

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3 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

With your system, performance wouldn’t be a problem. You say the platform is “outdated” but once airborne surely flying the aircraft would be just the same in MSFS as it is in P3D.

Could barely hit 30 with live traffic on major hubs. The overall lightning in MSFS is also much improved, so this should allow for a better experience when looking inside and outside of the flight deck. 

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10 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Could barely hit 30 with live traffic on major hubs. The overall lightning in MSFS is also much improved, so this should allow for a better experience when looking inside and outside of the flight deck. 

You have a AMD Ryzen 7800X3D | Zotac RTX 4090 Trinity, rightYou should be getting at least 30 FPS in 4K in MSFS if you are using frame generation, even with add-ons like FSLTL, a major airport add-on (ie. iniBuilds, etc), and something like the PMDG 737.

If you're not getting 30 FPS in P3D with comparable add-ons at the same location, that's just terrible performance from P3D, especially with P3D's outdated graphics (in general, your FPS should be higher if the graphics are worse).

Edited by abrams_tank
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i5-12400, RTX 3060 Ti, 32 GB RAM

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8 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Could barely hit 30 with live traffic on major hubs. The overall lightning in MSFS is also much improved, so this should allow for a better experience when looking inside and outside of the flight deck. 

The kiss of death for me, with P3D was looking  at the ground on departure or approach. Once you see how bad it looks, you can't un-see it.

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BOBSK8             MSFS 2020 ,    ,PMDG 737-600-800 Fenix A320, FSLTL , TrackIR ,  Avliasoft EFB2  ,  ATC  by PF3  ,

A Pilots LIfe V2 ,  CLX PC , Auto FPS, ACTIVE Sky FS,  PMDG DC6 , A2A Comanche, , Milviz C 310

 

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16 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Could barely hit 30 with live traffic on major hubs. The overall lightning in MSFS is also much improved, so this should allow for a better experience when looking inside and outside of the flight deck. 

Could barely get over 30FPS in Heathrow now that has changed. Granted newer computer but even before on the same one It still felt smoother on MSFS than P3D. I could say the clouds in P3D look horrid compared to MSFS even though they still need work IMO they look a lot better. The amount of addons needed to get P3D to a decent looking sim was another flaw. The night lightening I definitely prefer it in MSFS. I don't even need to worry about VRAM in MSFS. 

Edited by carlanthony24

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14 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Could barely hit 30 with live traffic on major hubs.

My system is comparable to yours. You must have settings too high. I can maintain 30 at SimWings Heathrow with 150 Ai in an 80nm bubble. Most at Heathrow. How many Ai were present?

A setting has been discovered in the last few days by a customer that increases performance considerably. Changing 1 to 0. Still waiting for a response from FSL.

8 minutes ago, abrams_tank said:

If you're not getting 30 FPS in P3D with comparable add-ons at the same location, that's just terrible performance from P3D,

Probably because settings are too high. I can achieve 30 easily at all airports.


Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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4 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

My system is comparable to yours. You must have settings too high. I can maintain 30 at SimWings Heathrow with 150 Ai in an 80nm bubble. Most at Heathrow. How many Ai were present?

PSXT + RealTraffic up to a limit of 100 aircraft.

I probably could get it to be stable at 30 if I started fiddling with settings and cfg files. 

The thing is that, with three small kids, I am lucky if I get 3 hours a week to use my sims nowadays. With MSFS I can just fly in a performant fashion regardless of the add-ons…no need to tweak. 

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GoFlight GF-PRO NG 737 Yoke System - Thrustmaster HOTAS Warthog - Honeycomb Bravo Throttle - MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals - TrackIR - Stream Deck XL + Stream Deck Plus
 

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@GCBraun, it sounds like that traffic program is quite hard on fps. AIG might be a better option.

Agreed there’s a lot of tweaking to do to optimise performance. With your lifestyle I can understand why you would prefer a start and go sim.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
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56 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

PSXT + RealTraffic up to a limit of 100 aircraft.

I probably could get it to be stable at 30 if I started fiddling with settings and cfg files. 

The thing is that, with three small kids, I am lucky if I get 3 hours a week to use my sims nowadays. With MSFS I can just fly in a performant fashion regardless of the add-ons…no need to tweak. 

Yeah, the nice thing about MSFS is you don't have to have a PHD in computer programing and tweaking to enjoy flying it, it just works. 

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BOBSK8             MSFS 2020 ,    ,PMDG 737-600-800 Fenix A320, FSLTL , TrackIR ,  Avliasoft EFB2  ,  ATC  by PF3  ,

A Pilots LIfe V2 ,  CLX PC , Auto FPS, ACTIVE Sky FS,  PMDG DC6 , A2A Comanche, , Milviz C 310

 

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2 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Yeah, the nice thing about MSFS is you don't have to have a PHD in computer programing and tweaking to enjoy flying it, it just works. 

If you don’t exercise your brain with challenges to overcome it’s very easy to get into a routine where you don’t have to think much. Keeping your brain sharp is essential the older you become.

After a few days with one aircraft I switch to another to stop me getting complacent. You don’t need a PHD in P3D or any other sim. Once settings have been established for the most complex airport that’s it.

Remembering how each aircraft needs to be flown is the important thing. The sim used is irrelevant.

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Ray (Cheshire, England).
System: P3D v5.3HF2, Intel i9-13900K, MSI 4090 GAMING X TRIO 24G, Crucial T700 4Tb M.2 SSD, Asus ROG Maximus Z790 Hero, 32Gb Corsair Vengeance DDR5 6000Mhz RAM, Win 11 Pro 64-bit, BenQ PD3200U 32” UHD monitor, Fulcrum One yoke.
Cheadle Hulme Weather

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1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

If you don’t exercise your brain with challenges to overcome it’s very easy to get into a routine where you don’t have to think much. Keeping your brain sharp is essential the older you become.

The problem is, our brains with work, family and kids, is constantly at burnout mode. I wouldn't want to stress it even further just to tweak things. Personally if I get 2hours a week for myself (if i am lucky), I just want to utilize it to fly and enjoy, I wouldn't want to waste that precious 2 hours tweaking 😅. I actually used to do that a lot back in college, but now with life, is becoming just so different. But yeah, with proper tweaking, you can get P3D or XP to your liking and I think the results won't be bad (at least in my case with XP11). So yeah, everyone has their own reasons. 

Edited by omarsmak30
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AMD Ryzen 7 7800X3D, 64GB DDR5 6000MHZ RAM, RTX 2080Super 

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