Pico 4 nightmare - can anyone help

[robert young]

I realise this should really be in the VR forum but that seems very sparsely subscribed recently so I thought I'd try here.

I've installed Pico 4's Streaming assistant and can connect ok to Pico's library and with patience get either a wireless or wired connection. Where it goes wrong is running MSFS. First, running without virtual desktop is terrible quality and I get frequent error messages in Steam VR saying my Pico controllers are incompatible, which I know they are not.

Secondly, when I eventually get MSFS running but briefly take the headset off to adjust things MSFS the mouse doesn't work and nor do the controllers. So I cannot adjust settings and nor can I even pause or go back to the desktop temporarily as the mouse is prevented from accessing the white band at the top of the screen controlling minimise, full screen or even exit.

Thirdly, if I run Virtual Streaming assistant, which shows a decent connect either wired or wireless, then run virtual desktop (Pico version) connection is invariably lost, but when it just about connects all hell lets loose and something either crashes, or becomes a crawl of stutters.

This can't be right as I see many YT channels where people manage to run MSFS with the Pico just fine. Obviously I am doing something wrong but I don't know exactly what.

Here is what  I currently do in order of tasks:

1: Connect the PIco 4 headset via my PC desktop pico assistant and the headset pico assistant. It connects either wired or wireless.

2. I then launch Virtual Desktop Streamer which reports a good connection.

3. Then I launch Virtual Desktop and set the Bitrate/resolution etc.

4. Then I start MSFS, choose an aircraft, location and time then "Fly now". Then I press a key binding to starting VR (which I've set to very low graphics just so I am not pushing things. Not once has VR mode started without massive stutters and choking. I have an RTX 3070 which is not ideal but on low graphics settings should be plenty adequate. The Pico is on a par with the Quest 2 which I ran with a much slower 1080ti card a year or two back.

Any advice would be gratefully recieved - preferably a STEP BY DETAILED STEP of the sequence of things I should do. If anyone is experienced with the Pico 4, by all means PM me.

Thanks very much.

Edited January 18, 2023 by robert young

[robert young]

OK Progress. I've managed to get Virtual Desktop settings running ok and I can now get VR. BUT..... now when I enable VR I get TWO side by side images even though it is definitely in VR. Whatever I do I cannot get just one VR image. What am I doing wrong?

Edited January 18, 2023 by robert young

[ryanbatc]

I wish I could help - I'm not familiar with the P4.  I only became a VR user myself about 3 months ago - using HP Reverb G2.  I'm still a baby when it comes to knowledge as well.

Is it possible that with the P4 you only get a mirrored image?  I think using Open XR you can run 1 image for the mirror but I'm not certain if its headset dependent.

[jaalonso]

Hi. I’m using the Pico 4 with MSFS using Virtual Desktop without problems. In principle what you are describing is the Virtual Desktop in the “desktop view”. You must switch to the “VR view”. In the Virtual Desktop menu, select the button “switch to VR”. I hope this can help.

[Daube]

I have the Pico 4 since a few days and I'm using it with MSFS with quite good results relative to my modest hardware.

Just like the author of this topic, I'm also using Virtual Desktop, which I bought for 20 euros through the PicoStore and installed on the headset. On my computer, I have installed the Virtual Desktop Streamer free application.

My headset is connected to the computer mainly through Wifi. I connect the USB cable too, just for saving the battery.

I do not use the Pico Streaming assistant though. I just launch the Virtual Desktop Streamer app, then in the headset I launch Virtual Desktop which can "see" my computer through the Wifi. In virtual desktop, I then see one of the selected rooms, with my computer screen shown in 3D on a desk. I can then launch MSFS, launch a flight, then use the CTRL+TAB default key combo of MSFS to switch it to VR mode. This triggers SteamVR automatically, and the helmet then automatically switch to the VR display of my sim. 

[Grindathotte]

18 hours ago, Daube said:

I have the Pico 4 since a few days and I'm using it with MSFS with quite good results relative to my modest hardware.

Just like the author of this topic, I'm also using Virtual Desktop, which I bought for 20 euros through the PicoStore and installed on the headset. On my computer, I have installed the Virtual Desktop Streamer free application.

My headset is connected to the computer mainly through Wifi. I connect the USB cable too, just for saving the battery.

I do not use the Pico Streaming assistant though. I just launch the Virtual Desktop Streamer app, then in the headset I launch Virtual Desktop which can "see" my computer through the Wifi. In virtual desktop, I then see one of the selected rooms, with my computer screen shown in 3D on a desk. I can then launch MSFS, launch a flight, then use the CTRL+TAB default key combo of MSFS to switch it to VR mode. This triggers SteamVR automatically, and the helmet then automatically switch to the VR display of my sim. 

I'd be interested to know what you mean by "modest hardware" as I am reading reports that you need some fairly hefty GPU power to drive the Pico.

[Cargostorm]

On 1/18/2023 at 9:58 AM, robert young said:

OK Progress. I've managed to get Virtual Desktop settings running ok and I can now get VR. BUT..... now when I enable VR I get TWO side by side images even though it is definitely in VR. Whatever I do I cannot get just one VR image. What am I doing wrong?

If you see two side images, you are not in VR in MSFS - only in SteamVR. You have to press your VR toggle button that you have assigned in MSFS.

Actually I found the order of starting programs is not that crucial (I use Pico 4, Virtual Desktop, SteamVR, OpenXR Toolkit):

1. I start MSFS in 2D, do everything in the menu to set up the flight, load flight plan etc., and then push the "Fly now" buttons.

2. I then start the Virtual Desktop Software on my PC (13900K, 4090 GPU) if not already started.

3. I then take my pico 4 and start the "Virtual Deskop" App in there.

4. I then can push my VR toggle button to join the VR mode in MSFS.

SteamVR will start automatically.

It never failed this way.

What I personally did as well:

- I disenganged my controllers in VD settings (Do not track controllers) in order to use my mouse in the virtual cockpit.

- I use OpenXR Toolkit to change image quality/performance.

- Also make sure that in the SteamVR settings, your runtime engine is "SteamVR runtime". Virtual Desktop will work for PCVR only with the SteamVR runtime engine.

By pushing the left controller outer button twice, I can go back to the Virtual Desktop (seen in the Pico) if I wish. The VD setting window will appear if you push that button once.

You get used to it quickly as a second nature. I startet my VR experience just at the beginning of this year and to be honest I never flew in 2D again.

Good luck!

Chris

 

[Daube]

2 hours ago, Grindathotte said:

I'd be interested to know what you mean by "modest hardware" as I am reading reports that you need some fairly hefty GPU power to drive the Pico.

My computer is equipped with an i7 8700k coupled with a GTX1070ti.

Yes, you need powerful hardware to run the Pico4 at its full potential. But lower-end/outdated hardware like mine will also be able to run it, provided you lower the output resolution. It will look "bad" (blurry) by modern standards (= for people who are used to a Reverb G2 on a 4090...). But for people like me who were using a first generation WMR headset (Lenovo Explorer, 1440x1440 pixel per eye, LCD screen with Fresnel lenses), it will just be like it was before, but with a larger sweet spot, softer image (pancake lenses), close to no screen-door effect at all, and even with a better tracking.

My Lenovo headset died a few weeks ago. This Pico4 is very welcome, "cheap-enough" replacement that comes with only benefits. And it will get even better once I upgrade my aging computer 🙂

Edited February 16, 2023 by Daube

[Cargostorm]

7 hours ago, Cargostorm said:

If you see two side images, you are not in VR in MSFS - only in SteamVR. You have to press your VR toggle button that you have assigned in MSFS.

Actually, I have just tested it and I have to correct myself. If you see the double images you are in VR mode in MSFS but have not launched SteamVR.

 

 

[robert young]

14 hours ago, Cargostorm said:

If you see two side images, you are not in VR in MSFS - only in SteamVR. You have to press your VR toggle button that you have assigned in MSFS.

Actually I found the order of starting programs is not that crucial (I use Pico 4, Virtual Desktop, SteamVR, OpenXR Toolkit):

1. I start MSFS in 2D, do everything in the menu to set up the flight, load flight plan etc., and then push the "Fly now" buttons.

2. I then start the Virtual Desktop Software on my PC (13900K, 4090 GPU) if not already started.

3. I then take my pico 4 and start the "Virtual Deskop" App in there.

4. I then can push my VR toggle button to join the VR mode in MSFS.

SteamVR will start automatically.

It never failed this way.

What I personally did as well:

- I disenganged my controllers in VD settings (Do not track controllers) in order to use my mouse in the virtual cockpit.

- I use OpenXR Toolkit to change image quality/performance.

- Also make sure that in the SteamVR settings, your runtime engine is "SteamVR runtime". Virtual Desktop will work for PCVR only with the SteamVR runtime engine.

By pushing the left controller outer button twice, I can go back to the Virtual Desktop (seen in the Pico) if I wish. The VD setting window will appear if you push that button once.

You get used to it quickly as a second nature. I startet my VR experience just at the beginning of this year and to be honest I never flew in 2D again.

Good luck!

Chris

 

Thank you Chris. All is well now.

[Daube]

Today I gave the very first try to the "USB tethering" technique to get my Pico 4 connected to Virtual Desktop through the USB cable faking a network connection.

There is a video that explains very well how to proceed, but I was a bit afraid to give it a go, given the seemingly complex procedure to follow. However, after viewing that video a few times, I kind of managed to get comfortable with the various steps, and finally the whole thing went much faster than I initially expected.

I'm quite satisfied with the result so far. In comparing with my Wifi5 router, I'm getting a more precise picture, especially when looking around fast. The wireless connection was a bit limited and ended up creating some blurriness (fuzziness?)  in some extreme situations. It seems the USB tethering does not suffer from this limitation. I'll perform more tests in the coming days, but for the moment my only conclusion is that I should have done this sooner 🙂

 

[Cargostorm]

15 hours ago, Daube said:

Today I gave the very first try to the "USB tethering" technique to get my Pico 4 connected to Virtual Desktop through the USB cable faking a network connection.

Sounds interesting. Looking forward to your further tests. Have you placed your Wifi 5 router next to you, and is the router exclusively used by the Pico 4? Some people say that in such a situation there would be no benefit of USB tethering over a solid Wifi 5 connection (1200 MBit/s).

It would be great if USB tethering would increase the depth of field in the VR cockpit. Especially in a glass cockpit, things get only really sharp if you lean forward towards the instruments. I have not yet found a setting that would increase the depth of field in VR using a Pico 4.

Edited February 27, 2023 by Cargostorm

[Daube]

My case is a bit specific, as I'm not exactly using a "real" Wifi5 router, but more a CPL plug that is connected to my provider box via the electric network, and generates a new, additional WiFi network. It's cheap hardware that is not very speedy. In fact, when I connect Virtual Desktop, I can see an indicated speed of around 450 Mb/sec only, very far some the 1200 Mb/sec you mentioned...

Also, concerning the field of view, this is not related to connection speed. If your instruments are blurry, chances are your resolution in SteamVR is just too low and you should push it up a bit.