flightsim.to premium

[doudou 20]

There are such a large number of new products created every day that the substitution of the .to site by a multitude of free mini sites - as solution adopted by some creators who have removed their product from .to - would only lead to a gasworks which the vast majority of users in practice will turn away from.

[RALF9636 1,921]

I wonder if this is all a massive overreaction, kind of a typical internet hyperbole.

When you look at that clause 4.3 and the new business model of the site it can all look like a calculated scam to rip off freeware developers and make easy money with the hard work of others.

Admittedly I thought that as well when I first read about it.

 

But now that others have pointed out that this clause has essentially existed for years and is similar to what is used by many other sites including Microsoft, you can also see it in a different way:

They just did a copy and paste of some common ToS to be on the safe side when they established their site. And nobody thought about that clause ever again. It hasn't held back developers to upload their work to the site for years.

Their project grew bigger and bigger, more than they ever expected, and they had to choose a different approach to keep it running. It became a business. And given what they offer to the users, there is nothing wrong with them making some money. There is a very user friendly website with a great search function including a scenery map and you can even track your downloads and manage updates. As far as I am aware we never had something like that before.

Now they made the next step in that business with the premium membership. Many sites do something like that. It doesn't mean that there won't be free downloads anymore.

And they also announced their Creators Program which shows they precisely do not want to rip off the freeware developers, but to the contrary try to find a way to compensate for their work.

 

Do they deserve to lose all the trust by users and developers, they got over the years, because of that business model and that clause 4.3 which always existed but was just brought to public attention? Shouldn't they get the benefit of the doubt?

Eventually it always takes some faith in the honesty of the operator of a site if you upload your work there. Even without a clause like 4.3, who would stop a Tonga based website from abusing the uploaded freeware content? Still there are almost 50.000 addons uploaded to the site - always having been Tonga based and with that clause 4.3 in their ToS - nobody felt held back to upload their content. What suddenly happened?

Of course their must be a solution for the cases where freeware developers want to withdraw their uploads for any reason. And flightsim.to should have communicated better trying to get the freeware developers on board with their new business model.

 

I just hope for the sake of all simmers that flightsim.to finds a way to restore the trust of freeware developers and that freeware developers will be open enough to rethink their decision to boycott flightsim.to.

It would be such a shame if we would be back to the times were we would have to search the whole internet for dispersed addons. Having flightsim.to as the one place to find all addons has been one of the best "features" of MSFS.

Edited February 19, 2023 by RALF9636

[Dominique_K 10,133]

10 minutes ago, doudou said:

There are such a large number of new products created every day that the substitution of the .to site by a multitude of free mini sites - as solution adopted by some creators who have removed their product from .to - would only lead to a gasworks which the vast majority of users in practice will turn away from.

A good point. Add to that the uncertainty of a proper security environment of these micro-sites. 

[simmershome 61]

13 minutes ago, doudou said:

There are such a large number of new products created every day that the substitution of the .to site by a multitude of free mini sites - as solution adopted by some creators who have removed their product from .to - would only lead to a gasworks which the vast majority of users in practice will turn away from.

No one has ever turned away in the last 30 years because they had to look for something. If the developer can work on an add-on for 6 months and then give it away, a user can also search for 10 minutes to find it. If that's too much, he doesn't deserve the add-on. Some see us developers as rather stupid people, because something that costs nothing is also worth nothing in their eyes.

Users who value it are not afraid to search and know quickly where to find you.


 

[superspud 450]

15 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Do they deserve to lose all the trust by users and developers, they got over the years, because of that business model and that clause 4.3 which always existed but was just brought to public attention? Shouldn't they get the benefit of the doubt?

It changed late last year. It didn't exist before that and the ability to delete was available. I know of a few people who erased themselves with no problem before that. 

It might have existed previously with a slightly different form of wording, but the flexibility to leave was there. They've now made it totally clear that it's gone after early March. 

Edited February 19, 2023 by superspud

[Dominique_K 10,133]

14 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

I wonder if this is all a massive overreaction, kind of a typical internet hyperbole.

You do 😄 ? Hyperbole or snowball effect ?

Today I presume, PMDG, Orbx, Capt Sim and others are wondering why nobody throws pebbles at them, stressing how incompetent and shamefully greedy they are. They miss that, they feel forsaken. But hey, the .to is the star of the show.

[simmershome 61]

9 minutes ago, superspud said:

They've now made it totally clear that it's gone after early March. 

It's like whenever someone thinks they have achieved market dominance. It's a tough business. But, unfortunately, with products that others create for free. Strangely, they don't introduce their model on xplane.to, because everyone can avoid it there.

Edited February 19, 2023 by simmershome

[lagaffe 203]

Quote

It would be such a shame if we would be back to the times were we would have to search the whole internet for dispersed addons. Having flightsim.to as the one place to find all addons has been one of the best "features" of MSFS.

The only thing the last 30 years have shown is that a monopoly company is never a good thing.
As we can see, they are two categories :
- users who wants more and more facilities and easy way to download (consumer society)
- developers who are care of their works

While deleting the last of my addons, I just noticed that someone was complaining to me about having done so because they would have more difficulties to find and download my planes (sic)
Never since 2021, she had the curiosity to go to the Documentations directory and read the readme.txt concerning my e-mail for support and the link for my homesite where my creations are hosted.
And moreover it was a person who had published a repaint of one of my planes.

[Dominique_K 10,133]

19 minutes ago, lagaffe said:

monopoly

Monopoly ? Where ? You have Avsim, flighsim.com, Simvol and several others I presume in Germany etc. librairies to upload your addons. You are absolutely free to go elsewhere  or retract in your own little shell. There is no monopoly.

The .to got on top all these because they have had an excellent UI and services until now. Yes, the "consumers society" simmers made their success. It seems that it bothers you ?

[bobcat999 8,444]

It is being reported that those heroes - Fly By Wire - are asking content creators to contact them if they are interested in getting together and talking about a new platform.

This would be great with their expertise behind it, and I would gladly pay a small monthly of annual subscription if the TOS was acceptable to the creators.  Or I would gladly give a voluntary donation even, just to have this facility succeed.

The people at FBW really know what they are doing - their download app is very slick.

There is hope yet!

Update - Source and credit to MSFSaddons.com > 

https://msfsaddons.com/

In response to the backlash, a user on Reddit who regular posts as a FlyByWire team member, offered its distribution platform as an alternative: “At FBW we already have an established distribution platform via our installer – we would love to make it a bigger platform for freeware creators to host their content! If you’re interested in working together, shoot me a DM or talk to us on the installer channel on our Discord.”

MSFS Addons has contacted FlyByWire to confirm this offer.

Edited February 19, 2023 by bobcat999

[Waldo Pepper 1,952]

1 hour ago, bobcat999 said:

It is being reported that those heroes - Fly By Wire - are asking content creators to contact them if they are interested in getting together and talking about a new platform.

This would be great with their expertise behind it, and I would gladly pay a small monthly of annual subscription if the TOS was acceptable to the creators.  Or I would gladly give a voluntary donation even, just to have this facility succeed.

The people at FBW really know what they are doing - their download app is very slick.

There is hope yet!

Update - Source and credit to MSFSaddons.com > 

https://msfsaddons.com/

In response to the backlash, a user on Reddit who regular posts as a FlyByWire team member, offered its distribution platform as an alternative: “At FBW we already have an established distribution platform via our installer – we would love to make it a bigger platform for freeware creators to host their content! If you’re interested in working together, shoot me a DM or talk to us on the installer channel on our Discord.”

MSFS Addons has contacted FlyByWire to confirm this offer.

Oof!   It appears FS.TO was sailing along like the Titanic,   and it's master didn't see the iceberg looming in the darkness.

[guenseli 1,577]

38 minutes ago, Waldo Pepper said:

Oof!   It appears FS.TO was sailing along like the Titanic,   and it's master didn't see the iceberg looming in the darkness

Or all passengers had a panic attack, seeing an iceberg. Captain and crew had no issues, just a few degrees starboard to avoid the collision. 

But passengers didn't believe them and sunk the ship just to be sure 

🙄

[BrammyH 446]

2 hours ago, bobcat999 said:

It is being reported that those heroes - Fly By Wire - are asking content creators to contact them if they are interested in getting together and talking about a new platform.

That is an interesting change of heart, since the Headwinds A330 folks recently reported they were denied from adding their aircraft to the FBW launcher.

[Phantoms 800]

19 hours ago, leprechaunlive said:

We get it, you dont INTEND on doing it NOW, but still have a ToS that says you could so....

How does the above stating they do not intend to make profit from any user content jive with their new TOS?

 

(4.4) You grant to the Platform the right to monetize your User Content on the Service, which may include displaying ads on or within User Content. For the sake of clarity, this Agreement does not entitle you to any payments.

[bobcat999 8,444]

1 minute ago, Phantoms said:

How does the above stating they do not intend to make profit from any user content jive with their new TOS?

(4.4) You grant to the Platform the right to monetize your User Content on the Service, which may include displaying ads on or within User Content. For the sake of clarity, this Agreement does not entitle you to any payments.

That's just it, it doesn't!