flightsim.to premium

[HiFlyer 9,083]

I find it interesting that some appear to believe that we either have Flightsim.to, or we have nothing, and the freeware scene will metaphorically go starve in the wilderness without it.

But there are already alternative and very similar sites that would probably love to become more prominent.

Unless you have some sort of unbreakable monopoly, its probably never safe to assume you have consumers over any sort of barrel...

Edited February 21 by HiFlyer
Spelling

[Der Zeitgeist 1,575]

35 minutes ago, HiFlyer said:

I find it interesting that some appear to believe that we either have Flightsim.to, or we have nothing, and the freeware scene will metaphorically go starve in the wilderness without it.

But there are already alternative and very similar sites that would probably love to become more prominent.

Well, if you compare just the number of mods and ease of accessibility on Flightsim.to with Flyawaysimulation and Simviation, it's just no comparison. Not even close.

Edited February 21 by Der Zeitgeist

[HiFlyer 9,083]

9 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

Well, if you compare just the number of mods and ease of accessibility on Flightsim.to with Flyawaysimulation and Simviation, it's just no comparison. Not even close.

Until the heat-death of the universe, the only thing certain is change.

Or put another way, AMD was once the underdog as well.....

 

[JabbleWok 95]

25 minutes ago, Der Zeitgeist said:

Well, if you compare just the number of mods and ease of accessibility on Flightsim.to with Flyawaysimulation and Simviation, it's just no comparison. Not even close.

True, but only a few short years ago they didn't even exist.  Change doesn't happen overnight but it can happen - I wonder where we'll be 3 years from now?  Having said which FS.to have every prospect of remaining a major player as long as they keep their uploaders and downloaders happy.

[B777ER 2,349]

2 hours ago, Gstove said:

Obviously we don’t have a proper freeware section in marketplace yet but perhaps this sad and entirely avoidable fs.to self inflicted event might actually hasten asobo/ms into developing one?
 

Part  of the issue putting off developers seems to be the apparently strict requirements for marketplace products. 
 

The marketplace and particularly console users would benefit massively from a freeware marketplace section full of these fantastic simple free dlc like the smaller airports and liveries etc. 

MP has a hard enough time getting payware updates out in a manageable time. Imagine the amount of freeware now pouring in on top of it. MS would have to hire people to manage the library as well. No wonder MS is dragging their feet in that, I don’t blame them.

[edu2703 219]

 

2 hours ago, HiFlyer said:

I find it interesting that some appear to believe that we either have Flightsim.to, or we have nothing, and the freeware scene will metaphorically go starve in the wilderness without it.

But there are already alternative and very similar sites that would probably love to become more prominent.

Unless you have some sort of unbreakable monopoly, its probably never safe to assume you have consumers over any sort of barrel...

For me, there is no viable alternative to flightsim.to. There are none, absolutely no website that come anywhere close to flightsim.to in terms of usability, UI, advanced search, update notification, etc.

The alternatives mentioned here, such as well-known sites like AVSIM Library, Flightsim.com, Simviation, are a joke in comparison. Most of these sites seem to have stopped in time and still use interface from the early 2000s. They are only standing today because of a miracle, because the impression it gives is that they are abandoned. They don't offer even 1/10 of flightsim.to funcionalities.

I could support only one more site that has at least the same basic functionality as flightsim.to to house all the .to dissatisfied. The point is that such a site simply doesn't exist yet, and may not appear in the near future. Meanwhile, all the dissatisfied will spread out across multiple sites or venture out with sites of their own. I see that, for now, the dissatisfied are few, and that's why I don't intend to venture into Google looking for them.

Something very similar is what happened with Twitter. After Elon Musk's takeover, many people supported a Twitter boycott, only to realize that there is no other social platform that offers the same core functionality as Twitter and at the same quality. The options were either staying on Twitter until a similar quality social platform came along, or leaving and venturing into another social platform, even of inferior quality. Those that eventually left Twitter are scattered over the multiple Mastodon comunities and other cheap Twitter knockoffs. However, the vast majority are still on Twitter to this day.

Edited February 21 by edu2703

[HiFlyer 9,083]

It situations such as this, I've always found it interesting to simply sit and wait. Flightsim.to, got an early lead, and good for them, but I'm not married to them or anything.

If they prove problematic, well, for one, I'm already drowning in freeware, more than enough to keep me going for quite some time, and frankly, a lot of it is kid-in-a-candy-store hoarding of things that a more satiated me will eventually start trimming back on, anyway.

Historically, as a community we did just fine for years without Flightsim.to, and if they went away, or somebody else came to the fore, I myself and probably most us, I suspect, would adjust to that just as we adjusted to their presence.

Personally I'd hate to think I'd become so adverse to change that this was a major issue.

https://msfsaddons.com/freeware/

http://www.allflightmods.com/category/microsoft-flight-simulator-2020/

https://www.nexusmods.com/microsoftflightsimulator

Edited February 21 by HiFlyer

[blueshark747 1,759]

On 2/20/2023 at 12:09 PM, B777ER said:

Yes, but people in here love to jump to conclusions based on speculation alone. It’s an Avsim hallmark.

This isn't anything new, ever since flightsim.to took the throne as the "new go to" sim addon freeware repository there's been a hint of bias, bitterness and jealousy in the air here.

You could feel it back then in this thread and you can feel it now.🤣

 

[eslader 1,566]

5 hours ago, DigitalJonx said:

I can tell you right away, with full certainty, that Got Friends including Got Gravel, Mykrode and myself will never be coming back to Flightsim.to.

 

And I can tell you right away that I don't care where the Got Friends stuff is downloadable, that's where I'm going to download it. Not like I'm gonna cut myself off from some of the best stuff available for this sim just because they aren't on a specific website. Talk about cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.

1 hour ago, edu2703 said:

 

For me, there is no viable alternative to flightsim.to. There are none, absolutely no website that come anywhere close to flightsim.to in terms of usability, UI, advanced search, update notification, etc.

The alternatives mentioned here, such as well-known sites like AVSIM Library, Flightsim.com,

Flightsim.com's interface is really fairly similar to flightsim.to, just with smaller pictures and no download countdown. It's certainly not as oldschool as some of the other sites.  Ahem.  😉

 

 

[Lord Farringdon 439]

4 hours ago, B777ER said:

MP has a hard enough time getting payware updates out in a manageable time. Imagine the amount of freeware now pouring in on top of it. MS would have to hire people to manage the library as well. No wonder MS is dragging their feet in that, I don’t blame them.

Absolutely right Eric and I desperately hope they drag their feet some more. In fact, forever would be the best possible outcome!

My point is that freeware users and the creators of this genre are a special breed. Users take advantage of the creators skills, talents and efforts to customize their flight simulator experience while giving balanced feedback often bristling with kudos to the developer. Meanwhile, the creator takes advantage of users to 'field test' their products and to improve and develop their own skills and knowledge. Creators willingly and freely share their work with the community because they enjoy doing it and if it feeds an appreciative crowd (some who give voluntary donations,) then it is a win/win. We do not need a money grabbing behemoth like Microsoft being left in charge of this. We must protect this freedom of exchange with all our efforts.

Of course like any village, we need a MP where people can gather to sell their fruit or crafts or baking or whatever. The community MP for us is currently FS.to and except as described above (some of which may soon be resolved, if not to everyone's' satisfaction) ) mostly serves us very well.  

But I also agree with @HiFlyer  that change is inevitable and while FS.to is the current flavour it will need to ensure it continues to provide service that meets users and creators requirements if it is to last. The current stink could quite literally be a broken sewer next to the village market trestle tables. If it's fixed we're all good, but if not we may be surprised who will suddenly offer their space to host a new MP. We may not even be aware of them at the moment just as FS.to came out of the woodwork to take advantage of the vacuum of a free exchange MP for MSFS. 

And this brings us to another point. MP providers like FS.to and FBW are not there to take our money. Like the creators they see an opportunity to help the community and bring it together so that creators can showcase their work and effort to as larger audience as possible.  They are as much a part of our community as the creators and the users and we shouldn't pillory them. The difference is that as they get popular their costs go up disproportionately to the point they might no longer be willing to wear those costs without some help.  That's where they have to be careful since it doesn't take very much monetization and legal malfeasance before you are no longer considered to be exhibiting the unwritten values of the freeware community!! I thinks that's what we are seeing here but I don't begrudge them trying to find a solution.

Perhaps that solution is another MP to take the heat off of FS.to. A growing business is great when it is a business, but when its a freeware provider growth becomes the sword of Damocles with every new download record that it breaks.

 

Cheers

 

Terry     

            

Edited February 22 by Lord Farringdon

[F737MAX 4,757]

3 hours ago, eslader said:

Flightsim.com's interface is really fairly similar to flightsim.to, just with smaller pictures and no download countdown. It's certainly not as oldschool as some of the other sites.  Ahem.  😉

While Flightsim.com's new library is better than most other flight sim file hosting sites, it's still not as well-designed nor as user-friendly as flightsim.to.

It's interesting to see the pushback against content creators' legitimate concerns by users who feel their convenience from  using fs.to is more important.

Anyway, I see that fs.com is capitalising on the situation, updating their file manager to automated uploads and expressly mentioning content creators' control over their work.

[Sonosusto 495]

14 hours ago, carlanthony24 said:

According to the comment left by the original developer that ported the product over he left on the ATR saying he was removing everything till the TOS was much clearer that has now disappeared 

This seems to be one of the primary examples of flightsim.to "stealing" back a freeware product when it was it payware at one point. Not a good example.

 

Another thing....As for GotFriends: Flightsim.to terminated the partnership? I am getting a lot of mixed messages about who said what etc. If that is true then that's pretty sad. Flightsim.to seems pretty amendment about their stance so not sure why there is such a huge disconnect between what they are sayings vs the overall community and developers. If people are using the ATR freeware as an example then its a pretty bad example. Did Flightsim.to directly terminate GotFriends? That's insane, if true. They make some of the best...if not THE best freeware and payware planes for GA.

TLDR: I am seeing a lot of claims and buzzwords of "termination," "stealing" (or similar, don't read into it) and flightsim.to saying otherwise.

 

18 hours ago, Ricardo41 said:

What on earth does any of this discussion have to do with "cancel culture"? Nobody is "canceling" anyone. Creators are raising questions. This is completely legitimate.

These are not questions. People are boycotting and rioting online, taking their stuff off of the site. It does sound like cancel culture because its essentially the same thing. My opinion, get over it. Something controversial happens and everyone screams boycott. I am still trying to see proof of Flightsim.to "stealing" or refusing to delete their stuff suddenly out of nowhere when apparently this was on their terms of service for over a year or so.

Something happens, outrage, then boycotting and online screaming. Hence exactly what I said, cancel culture.

15 hours ago, Dominique_K said:

I am a bit concerned by the ATR issue but I haven't not seen any other cases or the original uploader protesting of an usurpation. 

I keep asking myself the same question but not really getting any examples besides the formerly payware AT

Edited February 22 by Sonosusto

[Sonosusto 495]

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Edited February 22 by Sonosusto
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[Sonosusto 495]

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Edited February 22 by Sonosusto
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[honanhal 1,419]

1 hour ago, F737MAX said:

It's interesting to see the pushback against content creators' legitimate concerns by users who feel their convenience from  using fs.to is more important.

I don't really think that's a fair characterization of what's been said in this thread. What I'm seeing instead is people pushing back on the idea that there are viable alternatives to fs.to today, so it's no big deal if a lot of people take their uploads elsewhere. To say that no, actually, it IS a big deal* doesn't necessarily mean that fs.to is in the right, or that the creators in revolt are in the wrong.

For example, my own slightly more complex view is that

• fs.to has handled this very poorly and deepened the crisis
• some, but not all, of the initial outcry was overblown or perhaps disingenuous (as the TOS was not a new issue), and
• if this isn't generally resolved, users will end up as the big losers. Speaking solely as a freeware user, fs.to has been a wonderful thing to have, something we were sorely missing in the previous FS era. It would be a real shame for it to fall apart.

*Because there 1) aren't really any alternatives of close to the same quality/user experience and 2) because none of the existing alternatives are dominant, freeware would then fragment and scatter, as we've had in FS for the vast majority of its history.