General Aviation AI

[Danno 192]

Is there any development in the works for general aviation AI traffic? Small airports (and many medium) haven't looked so empty since FS2000 when AI traffic hadn't been invented yet. The sim has a few non-descript GA AI models but I almost never see them (Live traffic is on). Even when using off-line traffic and a GA mod, they are scattered very thin and almost never parked. 

FSX was inferior in most ways to MSFS but its AI was MILES ahead. Not only did I have small privately owned Cessnas and Pipers scattered around the ramps of 95% of all airports, I also had the payware helicopter addon that added helos coming and going from many airports. And floatplane traffic too thanks to Holger. 

I am quite happy with MSFS turbofan traffic at major airports but the rest of the world is dead. Hopefully small GA is on someone's radar. Someday. 

 

 

 

[adino 263]

For now your best bet into real live GA traffic in MSFS is a combination of PSXT + AIG GA models. You will get good live GA traffic for pistons, turbo props and business jets especially at the major executive and regional airports.

You can also use the Enhanced live traffic tool but it has it limitations which PSXT doesn't.

Edited February 25, 2023 by adino

[VFXSimmer 1,310]

Totally agree that GA needs some love by Asobo and even third party help.

By its very nature, GA should be handled differently from airliner traffic because real world GA following VFR routes even when they show up via transponder dont have a destination and thus resulting flight plan to insert into the sim as a typical AI asset.   Solutions like FSLTL that insert real world traffic arent going to help with these flights.  The sim needs to rely on prebuilt flight plans either its internal database or something like AIG for GA where a third party provides a huge assortment of plausible GA flights.  To that end, something like Danno suggests that has AI flightplans for gliders, balloons, helicopters, etc would certainly be popular if a 3rd party were to provide them.  To be incorporated as real AI assets that respond to ATC, they would need flight plans and would probably need some new coding by Asobo to handle VTOL take offs and landing for both heli's and balloons, but other than that it just needs a provider to find a clever way of generating a database for them.  Such a set could also include GA planes doing circuits etc as well.

In the meantimes I've had somewhat decent results with Phantom's GA mod along with FSLTL for airliners.  This taps into the GA flightplans Asobo has maintained from FSX.  From my observations this database is decent but not extensive - some GA fields are well represented, others are not.  Ive also never seen a plane doing circuits either, so I presume there arent any in the set.

One thing that would greatly help is for Asobo to provide independent traffic controls for airliners vs GA... both for traffic AND for statics.  Since GA is less represented, it is nice to up the statics at GA airfields, but as it stands now that ALSO effects larger airports adding unwanted generics at gates etc.  If these could be divided in the UI then we can continue to work with the best solution for each type of traffic while developers continue to provide new tools for each.

[Kaiii3 1,967]

At AIG we are currently investigating how much work a stand alone GA AI Pack would be, or if it can be integrated into AIGTC with random generated traffic.

[orchestra_nl 923]

For FSX there was the freeware GA-Traffic addon:

It had separate settings for club/private/student/taxi etc. and created believable traffic. The virtual landing fees limited the amount of GA traffic on large hubs. One could choose which aircraft and liveries to use.
For FSX there were plenty of AI quality GA aircraft available for free although the better ones were payware.

Hopefully something like this could be made for MSFS. I think it's a great opportunity for FS Traffic to incorporate something like this because there is good competition from freeware when it comes to commercial flights but very little regarding GA.

[VFXSimmer 1,310]

11 minutes ago, orchestra_nl said:

For FSX there was the freeware GA-Traffic addon:

It had separate settings for club/private/student/taxi etc. and created believable traffic. The virtual landing fees limited the amount of GA traffic on large hubs. One could choose which aircraft and liveries to use.
For FSX there were plenty of AI quality GA aircraft available for free although the better ones were payware.

Hopefully something like this could be made for MSFS. I think it's a great opportunity for FS Traffic to incorporate something like this because there is good competition from freeware when it comes to commercial flights but very little regarding GA.

Once the AI and ATC issues are sorted (they're getting close with SU12), all one would need is to create a database of airport "types" - international, regional, local, and bush (for example) and then a smart tool like this could probably generate believeable GA traffic.   If offline AI functions are working, this kind of tool only needs to insert the traffic into the sim with a flightplan and the sim does the rest.  Sounds like a great project for an enterprising developer 🙂

[orchestra_nl 923]

Just now, VFXSimmer said:

Once the AI and ATC issues are sorted (they're getting close with SU12), all one would need is to create a database of airport "types" - international, regional, local, and bush (for example) and then a smart tool like this could probably generate believeable GA traffic.   If offline AI functions are working, this kind of tool only needs to insert the traffic into the sim with a flightplan and the sim does the rest.  Sounds like a great project for an enterprising developer 🙂

Most of the work might be creating a set of GA aircraft suitable for AI traffic. There is a great difference in popularity per region so I'd guess we would need the top 5 most popular aircraft per region at least. That's going to be quite a lot of work. Liveries too.

[VFXSimmer 1,310]

6 minutes ago, orchestra_nl said:

Most of the work might be creating a set of GA aircraft suitable for AI traffic. There is a great difference in popularity per region so I'd guess we would need the top 5 most popular aircraft per region at least. That's going to be quite a lot of work. Liveries too.

True, but one doesnt necessarily need to wait for the other.  If there is a scheme of "best fit" you could start with a relatively small number of AI GA models and build from there.  The flightplans could be built with whatever variety and real world accurate plane sets you wish.  If you then include a table that groups planes into similar body types - e.g. high-wing single piston, low-wing single piston, lowwing dual, etc etc and start with a set with at least one of each.  I built something quickly like that on my own with PSXT (I believe its now part of the distribuition files).  This would allow the traffic program to be released sooner and all one would need to do is continue to build out their community folders with new AI planes as they become available to automatically improve variety and accuracy.

[Ixoye 1,812]

I mostly fly GA and working GA-AI is what I miss the most in MSFS, I really hope someone picks up on this, it's about time.

[Sonosusto 668]

17 hours ago, VFXSimmer said:

In the meantimes I've had somewhat decent results with Phantom's GA mod along with FSLTL for airliners.  This taps into the GA flightplans Asobo has maintained from FSX.  From my observations this database is decent but not extensive - some GA fields are well represented, others are not.  Ive also never seen a plane doing circuits either, so I presume there arent any in the set.

Been using this for quite a while now and it suits my needs. Caravans, DA40 and 62s etc are seen flying from many airports. I keep my traffic slider st 10-20 depending on what I'm flying. FSLTL ifr slider is set to 20-40 (depending on what I'm flying and how bug the airport is) and the airports feel alive. I also use AIground and AIflow to help with go arounds and runway incursions haha.

I care more about flying but sometimes its nice to watch airport traffic during a sunset.

SU12 is supposed to have some traffic fixes. Hopefully it doesn't break everything

Edited February 26, 2023 by Sonosusto

[Mike62 29]

3 hours ago, Sonosusto said:

Been using this for quite a while now and it suits my needs. Caravans, DA40 and 62s etc are seen flying from many airports. I keep my traffic slider st 10-20 depending on what I'm flying. FSLTL ifr slider is set to 20-40 (depending on what I'm flying and how bug the airport is) and the airports feel alive. I also use AIground and AIflow to help with go arounds and runway incursions haha.

I care more about flying but sometimes its nice to watch airport traffic during a sunset.

SU12 is supposed to have some traffic fixes. Hopefully it doesn't break everything

Where Do I find Phantom's GA MOD.  Would it be possible to post a link.  I did a Google search but it came with many wrong results.  I am a general aviation virtual pilot and most interested in having more realistic GA traffic.

Thanks,

Mike

[hanhamreds 592]

1 hour ago, Mike62 said:

Where Do I find Phantom's GA MOD.  Would it be possible to post a link.  I did a Google search but it came with many wrong results.  I am a general aviation virtual pilot and most interested in having more realistic GA traffic.

Thanks,

Mike

This https://flightsim.to/file/38966/ga-stock-aircraft-traffic

I think 

[pmb 5,137]

7 minutes ago, hanhamreds said:

This https://flightsim.to/file/38966/ga-stock-aircraft-traffic

This has the disadvantage you have to do modifications in the Official folder, that's why I omitted it so far, although I'd love to see it working.

You never know what results from modifications in the Official folder, but there are several people having reported trouble, in the worst case having to redownload the whole sim in case of an update.

Kind regards, Michael 

[Sonosusto 668]

2 hours ago, pmb said:

This has the disadvantage you have to do modifications in the Official folder, that's why I omitted it so far, although I'd love to see it working.

You never know what results from modifications in the Official folder, but there are several people having reported trouble, in the worst case having to redownload the whole sim in case of an update.

Kind regards, Michael 

No trouble at all. In fact, everytime the sim update you have to change it again anyway.

I've been using this GA mod since its release without any problems.

[Mike62 29]

2 hours ago, hanhamreds said:

This https://flightsim.to/file/38966/ga-stock-aircraft-traffic

I think 

Thanks, but I think I will skip this.  I do not want to edit the simulator files in the official folder..  I will wait until someone comes up with another solution.

Mike