3 minutes ago, Jazz said:

Try learning to use them 😉

 

Yes, I understand.  What I'm seeing is that it will have no bearing whatsoever with how I use the sim.  If I were using live ATC it would be useful but as it is now it really would be an intellectual exercise with no practical value, unless I'm called upon to be a Ted Striker some day, and that is very doubtful 😉

17 minutes ago, Noel said:

That was kind of my sense--really matters in the RW ("I can certainly see it in the RW if avionics or terrain radar should fail etc....") but MSFS ATC doesn't redirect me ever and I'm not using Vatsim etc.  I do very much appreciate this part of your comment, "I think if you're passionate about aviation and interested in how things work, the charts are an integral part of that!".   And here's probably why I haven't gone there in going on 3 decades of simming:  I'm more passionate about flight simulation, than aviation!  I know that's hard to admit here but I'm being honest.  Still chart-curious though so am considering learning more about...aviation as it were.  My sense is I would look at these charts and they would not change the flight details at all, which are written in stone (because MSFS ATC won't feed me anything different than what I told it to feed me!

If you get curious enough to want to invest some time - I can't recommend these enough: Pilot Training Workshops - PilotEdge.net

Really, really well done - videos are lengthy but you can watch them bit at a time. You'll come out the other end a chart pro 🙂

8 minutes ago, Noel said:

Yes, I understand.  What I'm seeing is that it will have no bearing whatsoever with how I use the sim.  If I were using live ATC it would be useful but as it is now it really would be an intellectual exercise with no practical value, unless I'm called upon to be a Ted Striker some day, and that is very doubtful 😉

Well Noel, If you can't see any practical gain for the way you like to fly in the sim then I say do what you enjoy. No shame in it.

If you fly in the USA I can't really see a reason for charts as you can view charts and approach plates for free on skyvector.

Some people prefer to have georeferenced plates (where you see your aircraft on the approach plate or chart) - I believe navigraph does this.  For me it's completely not needed as I just use skyvector on a 2nd monitor or use a GTN-equipped aircraft.

If you fly outside of it then yeah having charts might be worth it.  And would almost be mandatory if you will be online flying outside of USA.

Thanks everyone for your inputs!

9 minutes ago, Bigbluss said:

If you get curious enough to want to invest some time - I can't recommend these enough: Pilot Training Workshops - PilotEdge.net

Really, really well done - videos are lengthy but you can watch them bit at a time. You'll come out the other end a chart pro 🙂

I will watch these videos and with some luck and imagination might see a way I can use them in my use of the sim.

Cheers

53 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

Avliasoft EFB gives you charts, approaches, departures, moving map, terrain, weather, etc, ect. You buy it and you don't need anything else. Thirty day free trial.  https://www.aivlasoft.com/

The Aivlasoft EFB gives you charts synthesized from the navdata, not the actual Jepp or NOAA charts.  And...to have current charts, you need current navdata, e.g. a Navigraph subscription.

I tried using the Aivlasoft charts with the original version of the EFB, and found it missed a lot of the detail present on a Jepp/NOAA chart.  Plus, at least for the US, the current, real-world NOAA approach charts are available for free download at:
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/dtpp/

14 minutes ago, Bob Scott said:

The Aivlasoft EFB gives you charts synthesized from the navdata, not the actual Jepp or NOAA charts.  And...to have current charts, you need current navdata, e.g. a Navigraph subscription.

I tried using the Aivlasoft charts with the original version of the EFB, and found it missed a lot of the detail present on a Jepp/NOAA chart.  Plus, at least for the US, the current, real-world NOAA approach charts are available for free download at:
https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/flight_info/aeronav/digital_products/dtpp/

The original version is pretty old now, they have been on version 2 for as long as I can remember. They stopped supporting the original version 5 years ago. I fly all over the world, which is one of the greatest features of  MSFS 2020. I always have all the charts, plus Sids, and Stars ,  no matter where I fly. 

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by Bobsk8

1 hour ago, Noel said:

So again, what would I be getting that I don't already have?

Getting a deeper understanding what all the fancy avionics are in fact trying to accomplish when they follow your flight plan 😉 

Edit: I understood your question not related to buying a particular product, but to making use of charts at all. Sorry if I misunderstood ^^

Anyway, I also want to add that charts a simply an aesthetic experience. But I love maps and charts etc. anyway, since my childhood.

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by MarioDonick

SKYvector or AirNav is all you need in North America anyway.

sp

Approach charts (and in principle all other charts) give important information about runway elevation, exact heading, verbal and graphical explanation of missed approach procedures, decision height (or altitude), constraints and other stuff. 

Of course I could fly without them, just putting the approach into the CDU (with some fantasy DH/DA numbers) and let the autopilot do it's thing. But that would be just boring and a bit word not allowed.

15 minutes ago, crimplene said:

Approach charts (and in principle all other charts) give important information about runway elevation, exact heading, verbal and graphical explanation of missed approach procedures, decision height (or altitude), constraints and other stuff. 

Of course I could fly without them, just putting the approach into the CDU (with some fantasy DH/DA numbers) and let the autopilot do it's thing. But that would be just boring and a bit word not allowed.

So let's say you're in the Fenix A320 doing the flight I did earlier from Wellington to Queenstown NZ.  Would you end up hand-flying that challenging approach?  I typically hand fly out to 10K feet and then after 500' on final approach I disconnect the autopilot.  This is what I'm after trying to see how these are used in modern aircraft that are capable of autopiloting the whole route for someone like yourself who seems to be suggesting it's too boring to simply use the technology.  Surely that approach would be autopiloted in the RW.  I deal w/ boredom/purpose by using APLv2 which scores a simple but meaningful set of criteria for each flight, and I have now 478 flights under my belt.  If I don't pay attention I won't score and that's been sufficient to address boredom/purpose.  Plus, I'm inclined to leave the seat regularly doing other stuff around the house and return when it's time.  Gotta have charts if you're in the RW I get that, and I guess if you want ignore modern tech and do it the old fashioned way to address boredom that is easy to appreciate.

So, Noel, you're not using charts and still keep a close to 99 rating in Pilot's Life? How do you do that? 😉

But more seriously: I would invest in a 1-month subscription for Navigraph Ultra and see what you miss. I have used Aivlasoft in the past and liked it, but Navigraph Ultra is on the next level. Extremely convenient, very quick access to every data you may need in your flight worldwide. When I fly with a VR headset, I would consider Navigraph Ultra as almost indispensable. 

As for you, Noel, maybe charts will give you the edge to get above 99 🙂

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by qqwertzde

Of course I use the autopilot, most of the time I only disconnect between 1000 and 500 ft AGL. But I constantly cross-check on the charts what the plane is doing, if constraints are met etc., on departure, arrival and approach. If I don't do that I very likely would not have the situational awareness of where exactly I am in relation to the surrounding terrain. Awareness I need in bad weather when I have to do a missed approach or when I decide to take a shortcut during arrival. It would just be relying on the plane, which would be boring.

Using FSLTL it can even happen that a traffic warning makes it necessary to do sudden maneuvers I couldn't safely do without knowing the charts. 

And of course it's very important to know the correct Decision Height. DH/DA can vary widely. If I simply put in Radio 100 or similar I miss all the fun go-arounds or diversions to alternates when I can't see the runway at DH.

Btw: Is it possible to put in a baro DH of 11000 feet in the FBW A320? The Fenix only allows for 10000, so I had to cheat at the RNAV guided rwy 03 visual approach at Samedan today, arriving from LOWI. The most frightening approach I ever did so far. I highly recommend it.

 

I use Navigraph. It's almost perfect.

Edited February 26, 20233 yr by crimplene

3 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

Avliasoft EFB gives you charts, approaches, departures, moving map, terrain, weather, etc, ect. You buy it and you don't need anything else. Thirty day free trial.  https://www.aivlasoft.com/

You did mention this and although it looks pretty cool, the price isn't doing it for me right now.

Navigraph in-sim charts have been working pretty well for me.

1 hour ago, crimplene said:

But I constantly cross-check on the charts what the plane is doing, if constraints are met etc., on departure, arrival and approach. If I don't do that I very likely would not have the situational awareness of where exactly I am in relation to the surrounding terrain.

Well, I don't run into terrain in the planes I use which all employ terrain radar so it's very easy and intuitive to use the instruments and to see where the magenta goes thru the terrain on the moving map and to see constraints etc at least those that are indicated.  In the RW, or if I was practicing to be in the RW as a pilot which I never will, why of course I would have to become ultra proficient of course.  So yes I have situational awareness just by using instrumentation to get from gate to gate.  I was just checking in this query to see, as the title says, what charts might add for me.  At this juncture, it's an intellectual curiosity mostly, and I will as I said check out the videos to see if it's interesting enough to incorporate.