The Touchdown bug of PMDG

[PavlinS 179]

1 minute ago, Beardyman said:

where do u see rudeness here ??

Well, you mentioned the word completely, which is a little too much for me. I understand you don't like it, but the word completely means that you think that everyone thinks the same, which is a little soul crushing to me. 

[Christopher Low 5,352]

People have different zoom setting preferences, so let's not get into an argument about it. I have seen enough of that rubbish in racing games.

[PavlinS 179]

12 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

People have different zoom setting preferences, so let's not get into an argument about it.

I agree, we were supposed to talk for any possible solutions on the touchdown bugs that PMDG long haulers are doing. This topic was not about what settings I use in sim, how do I land or anything like that. I find this a little shift of the subject. And I will be glad we get back on the course. Thank you. 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

11 minutes ago, PavlinS said:

we were supposed to talk for any possible solutions on the touchdown bugs

There isn’t a touchdown bug. You’re not flying the aircraft correctly. If there was a bug don’t you think it would have been reported by lots of other owners?

[PavlinS 179]

1 minute ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

There isn’t a touchdown bug. You’re not flying the aircraft correctly. If there was a bug don’t you think it would have been reported by lots of other owners?

It is reported from other people, I mentioned two topics in the first message, plus there is at least one more topic about it. Since you disagree with us, the people experiencing this problem, then we do not have to discuss about it obviously. 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

2 minutes ago, PavlinS said:

It is reported from other people, I mentioned two topics in the first message, plus there is at least one more topic about it. Since you disagree with us, the people experiencing this problem, then we do not have to discuss about it obviously. 

You wrote this earlier… “Check at 3:38 - this is the moment of touchdown, then you will see that the speed goes down, then up, than again down, then up.”

I have watched that landing very closely a few times and cannot see any deviation in the speed tape whatsoever when the aircraft lands. It starts to slow several seconds later when the reverse thrust kicks in.

I think you’re going to have to live with it as it’s unlikely PMDG will address it.

[PavlinS 179]

Anyway. I don't see a reason to comment anymore. As I told you, my videos are not the only example. See the forum topics I mentioned as well. There is other people experiencing the same. I got lucky, if my landing was softer that was going to be bounced landing. 

 

[Biggles2010 343]

13 minutes ago, PavlinS said:

 I mentioned two topics in the first message, plus there is at least one more topic about it. Since you disagree with us, the people experiencing this problem, then we do not have to discuss about it obviously. 

I have re read all your posts and watched your videos several times. They do not seem to demonstrate the points you are wanting to make. The second video in your original post looks perfectly normal for an autoland. The first video of a manual overweight landing shows some yo yo control movements immediately followed by a large backward yoke movement just before touchdown, rather than a smooth flare. This would invite a bounce or a heavy landing. As I said earlier, this is probably due in part to the flattened perspective given to the outside view by zooming out.  The speed reduction on and after landing is entirely consistent with a large aircraft at a very heavy weight and high landing speed. I do not see evidence of speed increasing after landing.

[LRBS 946]

Gents,

 

We should keep an open mind here, this issue has been reported numerous times and vigorously combated by PMDG on the 747 and 777 and has not been fixed.

 

The issue here might be related to the wrong terminology, it should read speed trend vector that can be clearly seen bumping up and down unrealistically in clip 1 @ time 03:40 and clip 2 @ time 02:45.

In the real airplane, the speed trend vector after a touchdown will show a smooth deceleration based on brake setting and reverser modulation.

 

Not realistic, it was brought to their attention many years ago and carried over to each new version and not fixed.

[PavlinS 179]

3 hours ago, Biggles2010 said:

I have re read all your posts and watched your videos several times

You should have read not only my posts, but all the threads I shared. My videos are just part of the example, as I said the agent that is handling my issue asked me numbers of times to remove all my addon stuff from the plane so he can see is the problem from the plane or from anywhere else. You guys are so obsessed with my landing technique, how I record my videos and my camera settings, that you turned this thread in pointless witch hunt towards me and what I am doing. 

2 hours ago, LRBS said:

We should keep an open mind here, this issue has been reported numerous times and vigorously combated by PMDG on the 747 and 777 and has not been fixed

Completely agree with you. 

 

My support ticket was closed. So, I see, I will have to make always " butter landings" so I can have proper deceleration even if that's impossible. 

 

 

 

 

They blame the product that I have, which I'll say, it is not academic version of Prepar3D that I own, I own the most expensive license and this is very big inconvenience for me. Because also in my currency this costs twice as much. So, I see, that if I look for support of any issue I have in my sim I should obviously lose a lot of time learning myself of programming languages so I can change the settings that needs to be changed so I can have accurate FDM. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by PavlinS

[Biggles2010 343]

 

3 hours ago, LRBS said:

The issue here might be related to the wrong terminology, it should read speed trend vector that can be clearly seen bumping up and down unrealistically in clip 1 @ time 03:40 and clip 2 @ time 02:45.

In the real airplane, the speed trend vector after a touchdown will show a smooth deceleration based on brake setting and reverser modulation.

Agreed.

1 hour ago, PavlinS said:

You should have read not only my posts, but all the threads I shared. My videos are just part of the example, ..... You guys are so obsessed with my landing technique, how I record my videos and my camera settings, that you turned this thread in pointless witch hunt towards me and what I am doing. 

In fact I did read all the supporting posts you linked to and found them interesting. Your original post was about speed variation after landing and the claim that the PMDG 747 and 777 bounce on landing. I now understand that your first point was referring to the speed trend indicator. The speed shown on the ASI in your videos behaved exactly as I would have expected. Speed trend is obviously important on the approach, but I'm curious how much the indicator is used after touchdown in real life? I never flew anything that had one, but I see it being useful with high landing weight or systems failures affecting deceleration.

Regarding the landing bounce, from the various reports, it's something that seems to affect some and not others. Those differences between users seem to be a feature of most addons and all flight sims. There may be some specific feature of PMDG programming involved, but there are also some issues with the air to ground transition in P3D which can cause the aircraft to jump slightly as it's about to touch down.

[PavlinS 179]

38 minutes ago, Biggles2010 said:

The speed shown on the ASI in your videos behaved exactly as I would have expected.

Yet another saying " no issue at present". Fine. Agree to disagree situation. I am not talking anymore. 

Edited April 2, 2023 by PavlinS

[PavlinS 179]

On the positive side I recently took a new plane in my fleet, which is the PMDG 737. I will practice landings with all of them, to make sure I am prepared for the flights themselves. This year I am going to perform world trip with 30 flights in it and I'll make huge Christmas video with all of them. It will include my entire fleet, I will fly PMDG 737 / 747 / 777, QW 787, Vertx Diamond DA-62, Carenado Bonanza A36 and Alphajet military airplane. 

 

Edited April 2, 2023 by PavlinS

[LRBS 946]

While PMDG was one of the best developers they start falling behind on different fronts.

 

For some reason, they prefer to get confrontational with paying customers if dare to express a different opinion that doesn't fit their narrative, if you find a bug/discrepancy many on their forum will jump on the individual or start arguing.

 

Well, we all know that there is no perfect software but if we don't call out the issues, we'll never gonna see any improvements.

 

What is probably the most upsetting is that the guy in charge of the "user-to-user forum" as they like to call it, together with the business owner likes to delete posts, and ban people if they don't follow their personal ideas, if you report potential bugs, or if you disagree with their agenda. I wonder why they have a forum?

 

Anyhow, it is typical for them to blame someone else for their shortcomings while other developers don't have their issues, or when there is an issue, instead of troubleshooting they come up with these answers:

 

This is known to happen from time to time, a few users has reported this but until now it is not reproduced in our systems.

 

Very disappointing to see this, or at least for the customers since day one. Not a bright future with this attitude towards the customer that puts money in their pockets. 

[Patco Lch 1,465]

Then there’s the fan boys who come out of the trees and start throwing stuff at you for daring to question the perfection of the all knowing all seeing omnipotent boss. They’re the ones I don’t understands. I suppose  they’re hoping to be beta testers if they’re worshipful enough.