My next computer - still prefer Intel

[ttbq1 347]

14 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Steve, since I posted I’ve had a change of heart and will likely go with Intel. The i9-13900K looks favourite. Bear in mind this is because I intend to stay with P3D. It will be some time, if ever, before I buy MSFS and P3D will still remain my preferred sim.

At 4K the 4090 would probably be better. I have little knowledge of AMD GPUs.

If MSFS is your preference the AMD would probably be best.

I also moved to a 13900k and a 4090 and to be honest the increase in FPS flying FSL-A320X was about from 30fps to 40fps, but still struggling at heavy airports with AI...that is the only aircraft I currently fly in P3D and the only reason I still have P3D installed.

In MSFS it is a complete different result, I jumped from 40fps to 120fps flying wherever I want....but again this is meaningless to you.

I also waiting for P3DV6 to see what brings to the table.

[smerriman 1]

2 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@smerriman, Steve, the i7-13900K can be overclocked to nearly 6Ghz which is a big improvement (20%+) over my current 8086K at 4.9. Then you have increased amounts of cache which will boost performance plus DDR5 memory over DDR4.

The combination of all three should give a healthy improvement. Plus I won’t be pushing for max fps as that causes stuttering. I’m happy with 30fps which will mean even with most sliders fully right the CPU and GPU won’t be flat out.

How P3Dv6 will change things is unknown. Hopefully performance will continue to move upwards just as it did from v4 to v5.

Chillblast will be consulted about the best cooling options.

I overclocked my 6700 myself but not too difficult with 4 cores, the 13900 has a few more cores to play with so not sure I would be so happy, Overclockers have some overclocked bundles which may be a safer route to go down for me, if I decide to go the overclock route.

My next thought, I assumed MSFS was the way everyone was going, but it looks like P3D still has a good following, I think it was V4 when I was last on flight sim, I pretty much only used to fly PMDG 737, so is MSFS not the way to go?

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

56 minutes ago, ttbq1 said:

I also moved to a 13900k and a 4090 and to be honest the increase in FPS flying FSL-A320X was about from 30fps to 40fps, but still struggling at heavy airports with AI...that is the only aircraft I currently fly in P3D and the only reason I still have P3D installed.

In MSFS it is a complete different result, I jumped from 40fps to 120fps flying wherever I want....but again this is meaningless to you.

I also waiting for P3DV6 to see what brings to the table.

A few questions. Was this with v5.3HF2?
Was it an identical test to your previous computer? Specs of that please.

30 to 40 is a 33% increase. That’s pretty good if the testing scenario was identical in both tests. Same aircraft, same view, same time and date, same weather.

35 minutes ago, smerriman said:

My next thought, I assumed MSFS was the way everyone was going, but it looks like P3D still has a good following, I think it was V4 when I was last on flight sim, I pretty much only used to fly PMDG 737, so is MSFS not the way to go?

It’s a personal choice which sim you select. Advantages and disadvantages to both. It’s up to each person to decide what’s important to them. I’m happy with P3D.

[cowpatz 243]

Only 30 to 40 fps with one of the best gaming CPU/GPU combinations on the planet? Whilst it's flyable one would have thought it would be up around 60 to 70.fps

It surely is some dated coding.

Edited May 8, 2023 by cowpatz

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

Well here I am two months later and finally I have decided to go with AMD after much chewing over the i9-13900K versus 7950X3D choice. A good and knowledgeable friend has convinced me the AMD is THE best CPU currently available.

The slightly slower AMD core 0 clock speed is offset by its VCache.

Here’s my probable build. The X670 mobo will be replaced by the X670-E, probably Gigabyte Aorus Master. He isn’t impressed with Asus boards at present.

• FRACTAL DESIGN MESHIFY 2 COMPACT - BLACK
• AMD RYZEN 9 7950X3D 
• GEFORCE RTX 4090 24GB
• GIGABYTE X670 AORUS ELITE AX
• KINGSTON FURY RENEGADE RGB 32GB 
• SAMSUNG 980 M.2-2280 500GB 
• SAMSUNG 990 PRO M.2-2280 2TB X 2
• CORSAIR RM1000X 1000W 
• NOCTUA NH-D15S DUAL RADIATOR QUIET CPU COOLER
• WINDOWS 11 PRO
• 5 YEAR WARRANTY

 

I’ll order when FSL release Concorde as that negates the need to install P3Dv3.

This is for P3D only. No plans for MSFS.

[Sethos 4,335]

Excellent choice. Make sure you get familiar with Process Lasso or similar, so you can set a core affinity to the cores with the additional cache, to get the most out of it, in case you're using a piece of software or a sim that likes that additional 3D cache.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

Thanks. I use SimStarterNG to launch P3D plus various associated software. That has the option to assign cores. I understand P3D cannot use more than 8 logical processors / cores.

With 16 there’s plenty to assign to other executables.

[GCBraun 2,392]

Until now, I have not seen any evidence that P3D benefits from V-Cache the same way as MSFS. Raw performance still is more important based on my tests.

Edited June 19, 2023 by GCBraun

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

9 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Until now, I have not seen any evidence that P3D benefits from V-Cache the same was as MSFS. Raw performance still is more important based on my tests.

My source said this… “Any software can leverage vCache.  As far as P3D, it depends on many factors ... if you're cranking up GPU specific tasks (dynamic reflections, SSAA, dynamic lighting, shadows, 4K res ...) and have your system and P3D setup to be more GPU loaded, then the vCache will not be as effective.  But if you have a high levels of AI aircraft and AI traffic and AI boats or 3rd party software that is very CPU centric in terms of load, then you'll see a bigger benefit from vCache.  There is no "one rule fits all" answer, always relies on how you have your P3D environment setup.”

Given he knows far more than me I trust his judgement. I like lots of AIG Ai and at busy airports they are being deleted until 30fps can be achieved. I have a minimum of 60 to ensure some Ai remain visible.

[GCBraun 2,392]

1 hour ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

My source said this… “Any software can leverage vCache.  As far as P3D, it depends on many factors ... if you're cranking up GPU specific tasks (dynamic reflections, SSAA, dynamic lighting, shadows, 4K res ...) and have your system and P3D setup to be more GPU loaded, then the vCache will not be as effective.  But if you have a high levels of AI aircraft and AI traffic and AI boats or 3rd party software that is very CPU centric in terms of load, then you'll see a bigger benefit from vCache.  There is no "one rule fits all" answer, always relies on how you have your P3D environment setup.”

Given he knows far more than me I trust his judgement. I like lots of AIG Ai and at busy airports they are being deleted until 30fps can be achieved. I have a minimum of 60 to ensure some Ai remain visible.

Not totally sure how (and if) AI benefits from V-Cache, especially on P3D. Nevertheless, if you are targeting 30 fps, I don't think it would make much difference anyway.

Best to have a more future proof AM5 based build. Just built my second AMD Rig and I will probably remain an AMD costumer for the foreseeable future. 

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

18 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

Not totally sure how (and if) AI benefits from V-Cache, especially on P3D. Nevertheless, if you are targeting 30 fps, I don't think it would make much difference anyway.

I thought that was explained in his post. I don’t see the point of wanting maximum possible fps that will cause more heat. It’s about balancing what’s important to the user and for me it’s 30 at the busiest airports with no Ai removed for fps purposes.

If I’m able to run at 30 with my important settings maxed resulting in spare core 0 capacity I’ll see if my BenQ can run at 40Hz natively.

Graphics-wise my 1080Ti struggles after dusk so jumping 3 generations will take care of that.

[mokeiko 39]

5 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Well here I am two months later and finally I have decided to go with AMD after much chewing over the i9-13900K versus 7950X3D choice. A good and knowledgeable friend has convinced me the AMD is THE best CPU currently available.

The slightly slower AMD core 0 clock speed is offset by its VCache.

Here’s my probable build. The X670 mobo will be replaced by the X670-E, probably Gigabyte Aorus Master. He isn’t impressed with Asus boards at present.

• FRACTAL DESIGN MESHIFY 2 COMPACT - BLACK
• AMD RYZEN 9 7950X3D 
• GEFORCE RTX 4090 24GB
• GIGABYTE X670 AORUS ELITE AX
• KINGSTON FURY RENEGADE RGB 32GB 
• SAMSUNG 980 M.2-2280 500GB 
• SAMSUNG 990 PRO M.2-2280 2TB X 2
• CORSAIR RM1000X 1000W 
• NOCTUA NH-D15S DUAL RADIATOR QUIET CPU COOLER
• WINDOWS 11 PRO
• 5 YEAR WARRANTY

 

I’ll order when FSL release Concorde as that negates the need to install P3Dv3.

This is for P3D only. No plans for MSFS.

You've spec'd out a really good system Ray, enjoy it!

Hopefully Concorde comes out sooner than later.

fly safe

Edited June 19, 2023 by mokeiko

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

10 minutes ago, mokeiko said:

You've spec'd out a really good system Ray, enjoy it!

Hopefully Concorde comes out sooner than later.

fly safe

Thanks! It’s been a long haul but with expert advice I’m satisfied it will give me years of great service. The sale of my existing PC will help offset the cost.

Concorde is in beta. Hopefully not long to wait. 🤞

[GCBraun 2,392]

12 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I thought that was explained in his post.

He basically states that the benefits of V-Cache are less evident when GPU usage is high. I agree with that, but that does not seem to be the baseline scenario when running P3D with AI, add-on aircraft and payware scenery, especially with a 4090 installed in the system.

With this in mind, it should be pretty easy to see the benefits of V-Cache in P3D, but I just could not experience this boost, whereas in MSFS and XP I did see a marginal improvement in similar extremely CPU limited scenarios.

With that being said, P3D is not my main sim and I just installed it to compare the new X3D with my previous builds (13700K and 7600X based). Isn't there a single hardcore P3D user out the who is willing to make videos showcasing how different hardware perform? 

 

12 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I don’t see the point of wanting maximum possible fps that will cause more heat

Not necessarily, with Frame Generation you can basically double your frames without using extra watts.

 

12 hours ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

It’s about balancing what’s important to the user and for me it’s 30 at the busiest airports with no Ai removed for fps purposes.

If I’m able to run at 30 with my important settings maxed resulting in spare core 0 capacity I’ll see if my BenQ can run at 40Hz natively.

Graphics-wise my 1080Ti struggles after dusk so jumping 3 generations will take care of that.

Even though I understand that this is personal preference, the jump in fluidness from 30 to 60 fps is pretty dramatic to me and the fact that I can achieve that in virtually every scenario is a huge plus. If P3D V6 incorporates modern rendering techniques like FG or DLSS, then you should be able to experience this as well. 

In any case, this new build is awesome and should serve you well for a long time indeed.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,954]

1 hour ago, GCBraun said:

He basically states that the benefits of V-Cache are less evident when GPU usage is high. I agree with that, but that does not seem to be the baseline scenario when running P3D with AI, add-on aircraft and payware scenery, especially with a 4090 installed in the system.

With this in mind, it should be pretty easy to see the benefits of V-Cache in P3D, but I just could not experience this boost, whereas in MSFS and XP I did see a marginal improvement in similar extremely CPU limited scenarios.

With that being said, P3D is not my main sim and I just installed it to compare the new X3D with my previous builds (13700K and 7600X based). Isn't there a single hardcore P3D user out the who is willing to make videos showcasing how different hardware perform? 

It’s hard to debate something when I don’t have the technical knowledge. I’m trusting him. He has an AMD setup and is expert in computers and configuring flight sim especially P3D but also MSFS.

Did you install a suitable Ai package such as AIG which would test his claim? A stock P3D may not do so. v5.4 I trust.

A few videos would be helpful. But it’s not just the CPU that is being changed. DDR5 RAM and a jump of 3 gens in graphic card all contribute. The heat of the Intel was also a concern.

1 hour ago, GCBraun said:

Even though I understand that this is personal preference, the jump in fluidness from 30 to 60 fps is pretty dramatic to me and the fact that I can achieve that in virtually every scenario is a huge plus. If P3D V6 incorporates modern rendering techniques like FG or DLSS, then you should be able to experience this as well. 

In any case, this new build is awesome and should serve you well for a long time indeed

The only time I’ve seen a benefit in 60 over 30 is panning. 30 is not smooth but I can live with it. The view from the left hand seat when flying is fine at 30. Fingers crossed v6 has further improvements in processing.

The system should prove worthy for several years. Moore’s Law is long gone and designers are going to need to come up with new methods to balance complexity with available power. Frame Generation is a nifty trick in MSFS. Hopefully something similar will come for P3D.