Aerosoft CRJ - VS mode issue/question

[Bad_T 581]

Hello 🍻

Wondering if someone has an explanation for this. Was giving a dust cleaning to my CRJ and so took it for a short hop but i just can figure out a few things, well i know it's not really up to par with WTT autopilot greatness but still it should work for the most part so i guess i do something wrong 🙊.

I was at 5000 feet and have set set target altitude at 3000, VS to -1800 fpm and it just stays stuck between -400 and -100 fpm so i end up being way too high ... did 2 flights, twice the same thing. Note that most of the time in climb/descent VS mode worked great but it seems that when i'm doing the approach it just does random things.

Note that I have the Marketplace version, but that shouldn't make any difference i guess as it has not been updated for months.

Thank you if you have an idea, this sim has now plenty of amazing planes but i feel it just misses a little something in that mid-range CRJ/Q400/EMB/ATR segment so i want to love my CRJ even if it's a bit of 'meh' at times 🙃

As always if it's a known issue no prob at least i stop trying to find a solution, but if it's not then i'll keep scratching my head 😜

🍻

Edited April 10, 2023 by Bad_T

[Noel 4,493]

9 hours ago, Bad_T said:

Thank you if you have an idea, this sim has now plenty of amazing planes but i feel it just misses a little something in that mid-range CRJ/Q400/EMB/ATR segment so i want to love my CRJ even if it's a bit of 'meh' at times 🙃

As always if it's a known issue no prob at least i stop trying to find a solution, but if it's not then i'll keep scratching my head 😜

🍻

Sounds thrust-related.  When you change altitude below the current altitude the rate of descent is affected by thrust level AND the speed setting w/ speed button activated.  So you might aim for -1800 ft/min, but if throttle is not at minimum it's going to adjust descent rate to maintain the SPEED setting you have entered.   So to descend, hit the speed button and adjust to where desired, then pull back the throttle lever(s) fully.

Edited April 10, 2023 by Noel

[ryanbatc 12,834]

I don't see SPD active though.  It should still descend in VS mode.  

Although if it was an APR mode or something and you tried to manually descend I'm not sure if it would do that.  I bought the RJ on sale for 35 USD and flew it twice.  Has way too many basic issues - one of them happens to be APR modes and ILS tracking.  It hasn't been updated for a long time has it?  Could be not playing with SU12 - who knows!

[Bad_T 581]

Thank you very much guys for your replies 🍻

It's probably speed related because, from what i could figure out 🙈, i get the problem only when being low and slow. I thought speed and VS where mutually exclusive and if I used VS my speed selection would not matter much and i would expect the plane to pitch down (at least that what i think happens with all other planes).

I was not in APPR mode because, when i did the test seen on the screenshot, i just wanted to have something very basic, just putting a lower altitude and VS and see that it did not descent to illusrate my problem, in previous tests i had APPR and other combination but it didn't work very well either.

I will run some more tests in the coming days to try to understand all this better but maybe it's just the AP of that plane not being very 'trustable' ... i guess I got a bit too used of WTT AAU1 / PMS autopilot greatness lately, making even default planes being able to follow complex RNAV approaches with pinpoint accuracy 😍 but, from what i've read today while doing some research about my problem, it looks like the CRJ has not a very good reputation with its autopilot, i was aware of the (L)NAV doing sometimes big wobbles that are a bit annoying, but i thought VS would at least work fine. I like the plane because it's a CRJ and we really need one in the sim, but yeah it's a bit frustrating when you can't trust its automation unless it's pilot error.

Thanks again for your input 🍻

 

Edited April 10, 2023 by Bad_T

[btacon 1,788]

1 hour ago, Bad_T said:

Thank you very much guys for your replies 🍻

It's probably speed related because, from what i could figure out 🙈, i get the problem only when being low and slow. I thought speed and VS where mutually exclusive and if I used VS my speed selection would not matter much and i would expect the plane to pitch down (at least that what i think happens with all other planes).

I was not in APPR mode because, when i did the test seen on the screenshot, i just wanted to have something very basic, just putting a lower altitude and VS and see that it did not descent to illusrate my problem, in previous tests i had APPR and other combination but it didn't work very well either.

I will run some more tests in the coming days to try to understand all this better but maybe it's just the AP of that plane not being very 'trustable' ... i guess I got a bit too used of WTT AAU1 / PMS autopilot greatness lately, making even default planes being able to follow complex RNAV approaches with pinpoint accuracy 😍 but, from what i've read today while doing some research about my problem, it looks like the CRJ has not a very good reputation with its autopilot, i was aware of the (L)NAV doing sometimes big wobbles that are a bit annoying, but i thought VS would at least work fine. I like the plane because it's a CRJ and we really need one in the sim, but yeah it's a bit frustrating when you can't trust its automation unless it's pilot error.

Thanks again for your input 🍻

 

I have all of the AS CRJs, in both MSFS and P3d. I love the crisp look and detailed features and functions. As a hand flyer it does well, but that is not how you fly a small regional jet to and fro.  As an airliner with a complex FMS and autopilot when it flys well, it flys well, but when it doesn’t it flies stupid meaning it ain’t you man…it’s the AeroSoft coding.

As I said, I have them all, both platforms. I fly them seldom to never. 
Pity really.  Nice planes overall.

-B

[ryanbatc 12,834]

SPD mode is a pitch mode, along with VS.  I can't remember the exact inner workings of the crj.  But most models don't have auto throttle (I think the 900 does or has the option).  I only use SPD mode for climb...I think it's an earlier version of IAS or FLC mode, where the acft pitches for the speed you set and it will climb or descend at that speed.

So I guess Noel may be right if you had engaged spd mode - VS would be fighting for pitch control.

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

This is from a type rated pilot. In v/s mode…speed doesn’t matter, thrust doesn’t matter. The airplane will do whatever it needs to do to fly the selected vertical speed until it can’t. The behavior of this product is a bug.

[Noel 4,493]

5 hours ago, ryanbatc said:

I don't see SPD active though.  It should still descend in VS mode.

After setting the descent target altitude I always set the desired descent speed, hit the SPD button, then hit VS.  The plane does not descend until throttle levers are lowered below their pre-action state.

 

[Bert Pieke 7,584]

2 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

This is from a type rated pilot. In v/s mode…speed doesn’t matter, thrust doesn’t matter. The airplane will do whatever it needs to do to fly the selected vertical speed until it can’t. The behavior of this product is a bug.

There may also be an underlying VS mode bug in the Asobo autopilot.  At least that is what I am being told by the author of the Blacksquare Analog Bonanza which also suffers from VS mode problems.

Edited April 11, 2023 by Bert Pieke

[GEKtheReaper 364]

@Bad_T why don't you post the exact FPLN, LOAD, CRJ Type and maybe a video of the time point the CRJ acts weird.

There could be many things that can go wrong and your speed seams to be waaay too low...

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

8 hours ago, Noel said:

After setting the descent target altitude I always set the desired descent speed, hit the SPD button, then hit VS.  The plane does not descend until throttle levers are lowered below their pre-action state.

 

Your technique isn’t efficient. If you want to descend in VS mode. There’s no need to go into SPD mode before going into VS mode. Just go into VS mode and control your speed with the thrust levers and the VS. 

[ahsmatt7 1,199]

7 hours ago, Bert Pieke said:

There may also be an underlying VS mode bug in the Asobo autopilot.  At least that is what I am being told by the author of the Blacksquare Analog Bonanza which also suffers from VS mode problems.

That’s good to know. Thanks for the heads up.

[GEKtheReaper 364]

@Bad_T took the C9 ER in LH Livery for a spin (circuit) in it's standard (default load).

- took of from EDDM 26L

- climb to 5000 using SPD mode (210Kts)

- flying stable 210 @5000 I dialed 3000ft on the ALT -> hit VS and went for your -1.8

The CRJ followed my VS of 1.8 without an issue (had of corse pull back the THR LVRS to mantain 210 on my descent.

Had no issues at all.

 

Why don't you replicate the above and report back.

 

[Bad_T 581]

woha thank you all for the feedback, i'm overwhelmed 😍

yeah the screenshot is not really representative of what i was doing, it was just taken during subsequent tests flights where i was slewing around trying to reproduce the behavior (and i could reproduce every time).

But the main flight was like this, arrival RNAV Y RWY 08 at LICC (wanted to visit mighty Mount Etna 😱) programmed in the FMS, was at 5000 feet over NASOM (IAF) and wanted to descend at 3000 for CC500 (IF) .. the CRJ not being very able to do RNAV approaches as far as i know, i slowed down a lot (maybe too much) and selected VS manually (around -800 if i remember correctly) to reach 3000 and then the runway but it never went well. Speed is certainly too low, but i don't think that should prevent a VS descent from working properly.

@GEKtheReaper i will test a bit later this evening (just got back home from work), but yes i think that will work because i didn't have issues with VS when going fast, seemed to happen only when low and slow. I will also try to do a little video if i can replicate (maybe today everthing will work fine 🙊)

Thanks again 🍻

* edit * after a few more tests i think it's just speed related, no need to program anything, just flying straight at 5000, if i engage VS and if i'm around 140 knots (not sure what the exact limit is) it will just not descend. It's probably a little issue with the AP (i doubt the real aircraft will not let you descend because you're too slow but well i've never flown one 🙃) ... I've read the the approach speed for a small CRJ should be around 130-140 si i'm not even too slow i guess 😜

Edited April 11, 2023 by Bad_T

[Noel 4,493]

3 hours ago, ahsmatt7 said:

Your technique isn’t efficient. If you want to descend in VS mode. There’s no need to go into SPD mode before going into VS mode. Just go into VS mode and control your speed with the thrust levers and the VS. 

So you're saying pressing a button once is less effecient than fine tuning throttle levers?