Hi all.

I am routinely running into issues with maintaining the centerline on landings, regardless of airframes. I usually fly the Fenix, FBW, or PMDG 738.

I have 2 vision problems:

1: I am functionally blind in my left eye.As a result of  I have almost no depth perception and even in RL it is tough to tell if things are level, on center, etc. I'm a joy when it comes to hanging pictures.

3: I am color blind, so the PAPIs are useless for me.

The issue I run into is even on a clear, windless day once I take the AP off (around 1,000-500 AGL) the plane will often drift to  the right. Usuallly, because of the vision issues I don't notice it until it's too late, or because of the vision issues I don't trust my eyes that I am off. If I try and cheat to the left, I end up too far left.

I try and maintain at least the center ISL marker, but again, I end up off center. Just to check if it was the ILS system being weird, I used Autoland on the Fenix and it maintained the centerline properly, so it's a me issues.

It has become very frustrating and my usual solution is to ride the AP down to 300' feet or so, but I'd like to get away from this.

Your eyesight is bad but it is consistent - what I mean is, you must determine what the centerline looks to you. I'd start by setting up a flight starting on the runway on the centerline. Take and print a screenshot both looking out the windscreen and external view.   Start taking short flights and compare the screenshot to what you are seeing as you approach, when they look the same, you are on centerline.

Obviously you must adjust as you go but the idea is to build a "vision memory" of what is correct FOR YOU.

Also set up some flights where you can autoland and work on recognizing your visual cues.

HTH

Thanks.

This is good advice. I also think for a while I might just keep at 300' and then work back to 400', etc. The visual memory is a good idea.

1 hour ago, vgbaron said:

Your eyesight is bad but it is consistent - what I mean is, you must determine what the centerline looks to you. I'd start by setting up a flight starting on the runway on the centerline. Take and print a screenshot both looking out the windscreen and external view.   Start taking short flights and compare the screenshot to what you are seeing as you approach, when they look the same, you are on centerline.

Obviously you must adjust as you go but the idea is to build a "vision memory" of what is correct FOR YOU.

Also set up some flights where you can autoland and work on recognizing your visual cues.

HTH

Excellent suggestions!
 

I might also suggest purchasing FSIPanel. It can allow you to set up for short final, long final, patterns, STARs and you can configure what distances (and therefore altitudes, based on the glideslope) those correspond to.

Edited April 10, 20233 yr by mmcmah

Those MSFS PAPIs don't seem to be much of a help to anyone, so you're not alone. Also, since you're viewing the world on a panel of some sort (TV or monitor) there's no depth perception gained from binocular vision. Everyone is looking at a flat world. When I first got into flight sim around 15 years ago, I had a very hard time adjusting to the environment. Many of the cues that help pilots land in the real world are missing in flight sim, and it took a while to adjust. 

As suggested above, getting used to what a good landing looks like helps a lot. To that I would only add that in those airliners especially, speed control is essential. You want to be on a 3 degree glide slope, descending at around 700-800 fpm, and around 5 kts (in wind free conditions) above Vref, by the time you are 4 miles out. The term for all this is "stabilized approach", but it looks like you have that figured out already.

 

You will definitely have to get that sight picture locked in. Funny thing is that people with good vision will have an issue tracking centerline. When I flew C141s, they would say in the beginning, put your inside foot on the centerline. That was helpful and the jet, plus allowed you to feel the centerline with a body part. For flight sim, I recommend doing this with your ADI.

When I flew KC10s, we did a landing attitude demo since there are not a lot of visual cues in a flare that could be up to 8 degrees pitch. As an IP, you flew it down to flare height, pulled power and brought some power in just prior to the 10 feet call out. You kept the jet there at 10 feet and 7 to 8 degrees pitch and talked the student through the available cues. As some one stated, I would allow the AP to complete some approaches as you sit there watching. Note any cues that you can and lock them into your sight picture.

22 minutes ago, jrw4 said:

Also, since you're viewing the world on a panel of some sort (TV or monitor) there's no depth perception gained from binocular vision.

One of the odd things about my vision problem is that lack of depth perception continues in video games. I am exceptionally bad at jumping puzzles. My guess is whatever spacial sense I have on a 2d screen it makes it worse; not better.

 

23 minutes ago, mmcmah said:

 

I might also suggest purchasing FSIPanel. It can allow you to set up for short final, long final, patterns, STARs and you can configure what distances (and therefore altitudes, based on the glideslope) those correspond to.

I do have that and it is helpful. I am having a weird problem with it and the FBW A320 generating an alert about NAV radio configuration I haven't had a chance to sort out.

Edited April 10, 20233 yr by BrammyH

If you are flying an instrument approach such as an ILS, you want to keep the localizer (or GPS equivalent) centered even after you turn off the autopilot. So a quick glance at the HSI will give you an indication on how you are doing wrt the runway centerline.

Al

Edited April 10, 20233 yr by ark

3 minutes ago, ark said:

If you are flying an instrument approach such as an ILS, you want to keep the localizer (or GPS equivalent) centered even after you turn off the autopilot. So a quick glance at the HSI will give you an indication on how you are doing wrt the runway centerline.

Yeah, that is what I try to do. Not very successfully mind you 🙂

Also, are those corrections with the rudder, aileron, or a combo of both?

5 hours ago, BrammyH said:

Hi all.

I am routinely running into issues with maintaining the centerline on landings, regardless of airframes. I usually fly the Fenix, FBW, or PMDG 738.

I have 2 vision problems:

1: I am functionally blind in my left eye.As a result of  I have almost no depth perception and even in RL it is tough to tell if things are level, on center, etc. I'm a joy when it comes to hanging pictures.

3: I am color blind, so the PAPIs are useless for me.

The issue I run into is even on a clear, windless day once I take the AP off (around 1,000-500 AGL) the plane will often drift to  the right. Usuallly, because of the vision issues I don't notice it until it's too late, or because of the vision issues I don't trust my eyes that I am off. If I try and cheat to the left, I end up too far left.

I try and maintain at least the center ISL marker, but again, I end up off center. Just to check if it was the ILS system being weird, I used Autoland on the Fenix and it maintained the centerline properly, so it's a me issues.

It has become very frustrating and my usual solution is to ride the AP down to 300' feet or so, but I'd like to get away from this.

One thing you could do to help, maybe?:

Place a piece of low diameter fishing line down the middle of your monitor.  Use that to help gauge lineup.  

2 hours ago, BrammyH said:

Also, are those corrections with the rudder, aileron, or a combo of both?

It may depend on the plane, but sometimes small heading corrections are best done with the rudder.    @G550flyer here is a better person than me to comment on this since my RW flight experience was all in light GA aircraft.

Al

Edited April 10, 20233 yr by ark

1 minute ago, Poppingcork said:

One thing you could do to help, maybe?:

Place a piece of low diameter fishing line down the middle of your monitor.  Use that to help gauge lineup.  

That is an awesome idea. I do have these small sticker  dots on the monitor for some other reference points. I usually try and find something identifiable on the cockpit that is close to the runway center in my view.. Like a screw or something. 

I have an ultrawide so I am not sure the center is a true center.

6 hours ago, BrammyH said:

The issue I run into is even on a clear, windless day once I take the AP off (around 1,000-500 AGL) the plane will often drift to  the right. Usuallly, because of the vision issues I don't notice it until it's too late,

Others have given lots of good advice and all I would add is in the latter stages of the approach, don't get too fixated on the touchdown point. Look up a bit as you get closer to the runway, so that you can see the whole length of it, because that will give a better idea of your lineup with the centreline. Don't worry about being offset in the cockpit. In the 738 or similar, your view centreline is only 2 feet from the aircraft centreline and is barely noticeable.

I recently (five weeks ago) had a floaters only Vitrectomy(FOV) on my left eye to remove some or all of the vitreous gel humor from the eye to replace it with another solution(silicone oil or saline).  My cataract IOL lens also needed to be replace due to it shifting off center of my eyeball causing worm like floaters appearing all over my left IOL lens.    I am still recovering due to complications during surgery. The (FOV) and vitreous gel humor part went fine but I woke up from the anesthesia during the last procedure to replace my cataract IOL lens so I am without IOL lens for time being while I fully recover fully from the eye surgery complications.  There was an Oopsie moment!   I guess the Anesthesiologists must have falling asleep during my surgery and didn't monitor how long the anesthesia would wear off and I woke up and moved my head somehow.  I don't remember it though.  They had to stop the lOL lens procedure due to blood trauma on my operating eye cause by my sudden jolt of waking up.  

So I am sort of the same situation albeit temporarily...I hope! but I know the feeling.  I can't see very well out of my left eye...it is very blurry just like when both my natural lens fifteen years ago turn into a total blur but fixed with cataract surgery.  I am having trouble with MSFS on landings as well.  So the tips from all you flight simmers are a true appreciation for sure!!...

 

Thank You All

Since you have the PMDG, you have access to a properly collimated HGS.  I'd recommend trying that out.  You'll have a flight path vector that will make maintaining centerline purely mechanical; keep the flight path vector on the centerline, and that's where the plane is going, regardless of crosswind or anything else.  I recommend using IMC mode for some decluttering, or even VMC if you're not interested in flight guidance but just want to put a flight path symbol on the runway.

After you do a few of these and it gets comfortable, if you want to improve your ability to do it visually without a HUD, start putting the HUD in manual brightness and turning it dimmer.  Dimmer and dimmer, until the HUD image is just the faintest ghost of symbols, barely visible.  That should force you to rely progressively more on your non-HUD sight picture cues