Why does my Xplane 12 look so dreadful?

[Sethos 4,335]

12 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

Maybe it's time for an eye control

He will deny it until his grave, Chermical Ali style, even though it's one of the most commonly mentioned complaints on these forums alone.

[mSparks 2,086]

3 hours ago, Sethos said:

He will deny it until his grave, Chermical Ali style, even though it's one of the most commonly mentioned complaints on these forums alone.

You are absolutely crazy if you think laminar is going to fix

On 5/19/2023 at 2:40 PM, Sethos said:

Monitor color calibrations and ICC profiles wouldn't show up in screenshots.

Or how 4K looks like over HDMI

I'm not denying anything.

 

[bogdansrb 230]

18 hours ago, mSparks said:

you were the one saying

Why on earth would you post a video on an issue you cant see in screenshots and videos that does anything other than blame the users setup?

For those wanting to be amused, this is the video where he doesn't see any issues.

https://youtu.be/Co_G9lYXScY

[Sethos 4,335]

36 minutes ago, bogdansrb said:

For those wanting to be amused, this is the video where he doesn't see any issues.

https://youtu.be/Co_G9lYXScY

Yeah, most people with functional eyes and not a raging need to defend X-Plane with every intellectually dishonest excuse in the book, knows it has shimmering and AA issues.

[mSparks 2,086]

45 minutes ago, Sethos said:

AA issues

nope.

I can see minor vram paging issues there, on the console, seen much worse tbh. nothing AA related tho.

1 hour ago, bogdansrb said:

For those wanting to be amused, this is the video where he doesn't see any issues.

https://youtu.be/Co_G9lYXScY

never watched it, but if you are looking at it at 4K over hdmi I can imagine it does look much worse for you than everyone else, since sections of your display will render it at doom era resolutions.

Edited June 2, 2023 by mSparks

[StuSpeed 15]

15 hours ago, Sethos said:

He will deny it until his grave, Chermical Ali style, even though it's one of the most commonly mentioned complaints on these forums alone.

I don't think mSparks ever said the complaints are invalid.  What has been questioned is labeling the complaints as an AA problem.  I see this in my professional life where the product team puts root cause labels on problems before they are researched.  AA is pre-identifying both a root cause and a solution.  What looks like an AA issue may be due to a litany of things outside of LR control including hdmi bandwidth, gpu drivers, os issues.  For what LR can control, maybe LR is giving AA a closer look.  But I read somewhere the way objects and scenery are scaled down at distance is a bigger issue causing jaggies and shimmering.  VRAM management is an issue too.  Focusing on the right things is the biggest thing towards getting to a solution.

[mSparks 2,086]

6 minutes ago, StuSpeed said:

I don't think mSparks ever said the complaints are invalid.

^this

6 minutes ago, StuSpeed said:

But I read somewhere the way objects and scenery are scaled down at distance is a bigger issue causing jaggies and shimmering.  VRAM management is an issue too.

pretty much the same issue aiui. Its scaling stuff down far to aggressively to save vram when it doesn't need to.

there are two things "due" to drop (again aiui) that will address these artifacts.

First is an overhaul of how different resolutions of things are paged in and out of vram (mentioned a lot in the 12.06 and beyond blog post)

Second, only hinted at by Ben in a couple of conversations - an overhaul of the scenegraph for performance and visuals - most exciting (after openXR) from my perspective, but....

Both of these are mammoth technological challenges that are more likely to "break everything" until they are working properly - hence I'm not entirely surprised 12.06 is taking longer than the others.

However, if videos like

6 hours ago, bogdansrb said:

https://youtu.be/Co_G9lYXScY

are really looking "so truly awful that XP12 is unusable", chances are, imho, there are additional user end issues related to hdmi bandwidth, gpu drivers/HDCP, os issues etc that are far outside of LRs control.

[bogdansrb 230]

9 hours ago, StuSpeed said:

I don't think mSparks ever said the complaints are invalid.  What has been questioned is labeling the complaints as an AA problem.  I see this in my professional life where the product team puts root cause labels on problems before they are researched.  AA is pre-identifying both a root cause and a solution.  What looks like an AA issue may be due to a litany of things outside of LR control including hdmi bandwidth, gpu drivers, os issues.  For what LR can control, maybe LR is giving AA a closer look.  But I read somewhere the way objects and scenery are scaled down at distance is a bigger issue causing jaggies and shimmering.  VRAM management is an issue too.  Focusing on the right things is the biggest thing towards getting to a solution.

Why does terminology even matter that much? It looks like an AA issue, we'll call it an AA issue. Let Laminar figure out what it is.

Defending x-plane so religiously and telling people so get a 4k monitor and linux for something that Laminar failed to implement properly (and rushed to release) is really embarassing and goes to show why x-plane was (and still is) so stagnant. It's truly amazing what these apologists can come up to, and since XP12 was released I've heard them all.

 

[mSparks 2,086]

1 hour ago, bogdansrb said:

Why does terminology even matter that much?

It doesnt really, you are free to complain about the fairies stealing all your cookies all you want, you just need to also be prepared for the inevitable answer that maybe you should take your meds.

If it looks like yet another user complaining the cesena pulls to the left or that AA is broken while posting screenshots and videos of it working, what is wrong with treating them as such?

flight sim generally has had more PICNIC issues than simulator issues for many many years.

Edited June 3, 2023 by mSparks

[bogdansrb 230]

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

It doesnt really, you are free to complain about the fairies stealing all your cookies all you want, you just need to also be prepared for the inevitable answer that maybe you should take your meds.

If it looks like yet another user complaining the cesena pulls to the left or that AA is broken while posting screenshots and videos of it working, what is wrong with treating them as such?

flight sim generally has had more PICNIC issues than simulator issues for many many years.

You're saying that you can't see something that everyone else does and many others complain about? Who's not taking his meds?

[Murmur 3,941]

AA looks fine to me. Certainly it could be further improved, but I find it hard to agree with those saying it looks unacceptably bad. Wonder who the denier really is? 🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

[bogdansrb 230]

45 minutes ago, Murmur said:

AA looks fine to me. Certainly it could be further improved, but I find it hard to agree with those saying it looks unacceptably bad. Wonder who the denier really is? 🤷‍♂️

 

 

Please refrain from trolling before actually watching the video I posted and listening to user opinions.

[Murmur 3,941]

2 minutes ago, bogdansrb said:

Please refrain from trolling before actually watching the video I posted and listening to user opinions.

Not trolling at all. 🤷‍♂️ I am referring to AA (you mentioned AA in your last posts), not shimmering. Do you think the AA in my screeshots is unacceptably bad?

Regarding shimmering, which is another issue: I think this plays into the subjective realm. For example, as I said, I'm not bothered by shimmering at all. Infact, I am not aware of it when using X-Plane. In flight sims, I'm bothered a lot more by things like scenery pop-in and blurries.

But I reckon many people are bothered by shimmering. Possibly, it's going to get better with the upcoming improvements in the visual engine.

[UKflyer 630]

2 hours ago, Murmur said:

AA looks fine to me. Certainly it could be further improved, but I find it hard to agree with those saying it looks unacceptably bad. Wonder who the denier really is? 🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

8x MSAA? This results in unacceptable performance for most people.

[Murmur 3,941]

8 minutes ago, UKflyer said:

8x MSAA? This results in unacceptable performance for most people.

No, 4x MSAA + FXAA.

My ancient 1660ti does almost 40fps at 2x MSAA + FXAA @ 2560x1440 (which looks quite good to me), so any modern GPU should handle 4xMSAA at that resolution, and many GPU's even @4K: