MS/Asobo and opening Weather / Camera SDK to 3rd Parties

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

In a discussion about ImagineSim’s Singapore on FS Elite a poster gave a link to the latest Microsoft / Asobo video discussion.

They are giving serious consideration to opening up the weather and camera SDK to third parties. It’s odd it hasn’t been mentioned here. Here’s the discussion. 1hr 06m.

 

[Damian Clark 1,229]

🤞

[SierraDelta 1,342]

Ray,

It was mentioned in this thread when the Q&A was on-going:

but things move quickly so at the time of writing this that thread is already on page 7.

Edited May 16, 2023 by SierraDelta

[GCBraun 2,392]

Perhaps because it is not a huge deal for the majority of the community?

Regarding weather: with the latest AAU2 beta, I have finally started to use bigger jets like the 787 regularly on MSFS. What I like to do in my airliner flights is to use a spare monitor to showcase the live cameras from the airports that I am flying to/from, alongside live ATC and live AI traffic. This was already the case before, but is clear to me that default weather is very, very good and the WX representation of the sim is generally spot on when compared to what I can see on the webcams. The built-in WX radar is also working and currently meets my needs as a virtual pilot.

Regarding cameras: Having TrackIR support built-in and being able to map multiple cameras to numerical keys and to effortlesly move inside the plane using WASD keys, I really don't see myself purchasing something like Chaseplane. External tools like FSRealistic are already able to enhance camera effects and allow me to walk around the aircraft. The only thing I miss here is a fly-by functionality, similar to what I have in XP12 and DCS. This is listed a to-be-developed functionality, as far as I am aware.

Personally, I hope that they make the platform more open, but what we currently have in the base sim is just great.

Edited May 16, 2023 by GCBraun

[KL Oo 699]

Thanks for pointing that out Ray, I missed that one.

They certainly appear to be a little more open to the idea than they did 12 months ago and in fairness to Jorg, I like the way he explained his thinking around it and acknowledged their thought process.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

27 minutes ago, SierraDelta said:

Ray,

It was mentioned in this thread when the Q&A was on-going:

Having read through that topic it’s curious how little it was discussed. If it does get the green light and Hi-Fi have enough info it will be interesting to see how they can change the weather. They are the experts in the other two major sims.

[omarsmak30 4,068]

26 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Having read through that topic it’s curious how little it was discussed.

Maybe because wasn't critical for the community given the default weather engine has been tremendously improved since 2020? Of course for missing features like historical weather depiction, this would be good for 3rd party add-ones like HiFi. 

[MikeH99 156]

Weather and camera works fine but it's good that they'll be more options.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,945]

1 minute ago, omarsmak30 said:

Maybe because wasn't critical for the community given the default weather engine has been tremendously improved since 2020? Of course for missing features like historical weather depiction, this would be good for 3rd party add-ones like HiFi. 

The ability to have correct local weather for any time zone is crucial for me. It would be attractive to many others too I’m sure. It would also help Hi-Fi stay in business as they must have been hit hard with so many swapping FSX / P3D for MSFS.

They might even be able to create cirrus clouds. 😉

[Tom_L 533]

Yep, it looks like they are about to change their "no third parties for core functions" paradigms. As I'm a bit invested in weather related threads over at the official forums, I'd like to share my thoughts on that:

When MSFS came out, the Live weather simulation imho was revolutionary, but being based solely on the Meteoblue forecast model it lacked the necessary accuracy for planning purposes and online flying. Following user demands, MS/ASOBO introduced with Sim Update 7 a new simulation in order to integrate METAR data into the data stream delivered from Meteoblue.  

Although having gained sufficient accuracy (over the course of 18 months since SU7) in terms of where clouds and weather phenomena in general (rain, snow, visibilty) are simulated, Live Weather often lacks a plausible and convincing depiction, as cloud rendering is cumulus centric and neglects atmospheric conditions.
As an example, multilayered stratiform cloudscapes associated with warm fronts are inaccurately rendered with high reaching convective clouds in the sim. High overcast layers seem to be missing, higher level clouds generally seem to be generic.
Cirrus clouds are missing entirely, although attempts with thin layers of convective clouds are honorable. Reduced visibilty is simulated primarily when associated with precipitation, aerosol density doesn't seem to be implemented.

CB's are not rendered convincingly (weak), Thunderstorms are either missing or they are depicted underwhelmingly and have no impact on the flight, as typical physical phenomena inside of clouds like turbulence, up- and downdrafts and icing aren't simulated or incorrect.
That might even be an advantage, as a reasonable weather radar is still missing, so there's no chance of circumnavigating those threats, one of the few remaining challenges in an otherwise pretty boring commercial aviation environment.
I'm listing Wx radar here, because to my understanding the limiting factor is accessing live weather data and not so much programming a gauge.

Generally, clouds in Live Weather seem to have a lower density than preset clouds, probably contributing to many of the above mentioned deficits.

Widening the view from Weather to Atmosphere and Environment, there's even more deficits like snow coverage still being way too inaccurate with LOWI covered in snow at 19 degrees Celsius in Spring. Frozen Fjords in Norway and New Zealand are as immersion breaking.

Now that we have learned about the plans for the further development of MSFS within the immediate future, it seems that we'll get more of the same:
Aircraft and Avionics will improve with more AAU's, Scenery will get better due to several World and City updates, and a further Sim Update will enhance some core sim functionality. It will likely contain only minor improvements to the areas I described. Therefore, I have a strong feeling that there's an imbalance in the development of MSFS: while Aircraft, Scenery and Core sim are covered with dedicated personnel and timelines, Atmosphere, Weather and Environment are treated as a minor matter and improvements happen incidentally. But fllying an airliner with all bells and whistles avionicwise, but no reasonable WXradar, through whispy smoke puffs mimicking a CB without any impact and then land at LOWI on a snow covered runway in spring is arcade.

I'd like that to change, therefore I've voted for this thread: https://forums.flightsimulator.com/t/can-we-have-a-weather-atmosphere-and-environment-update-only-please/519593

Maybe some of the argumentation in that and many other related threads have finally resonated with the officials, but scarce ressources prevent a timely implementation.

However, I would prefer in-house development or the Working Title approach: Look for third parties capable enough to enhance Atmosphere, Weather and Environment and make them contractors. Only if that's not possible - for whatever reasons - then it'll probably be best to open up for third parties. In the end, being probably payware, they'll only succeed if they can deliver a better product than already present.

[Iadbound 211]

Chaseplane. Camera system still leaves much to be desired. 

[turbomax 3,284]

1 hour ago, GCBraun said:

what we currently have in the base sim is just great.

yes .. but ...

not enough. there is a lot more to "the current weather" than we currently have, including weather history and programmatic access to weather, for example to create special weather related training scenarios. something that was possible even back in FSX/P3D.

[Dominique_K 10,138]

Odd ? it has been discussed several times.

As a regular MSFS flyer of GA and  warbirds I am satisfied by the default weather as is, except for the inability to pick up the proper weather over the last 24 h period to match the flying time and the dreadful synchronisation between the World Map, the ATIS or equivalent and the windsocks. And when the Vatsim crowd insisted to have the METAR thing at airport, I didn't think it was really a good change.  Doesn't have Asobo more important tasks on the table than to dedicate manpower to open a weather API ? A decent, user-friendly replay function, improving ground traction and water physics, still improving the air mass flow over the terrain  come to mind. What I am looking for in MSFS is not a P3D redux.  

Chaseplane ? I didn't get it in P3D and the MSFS default camera system suits me fine. It has its quirks. Haven't we all ours 😉 ?

 

[GCBraun 2,392]

49 minutes ago, turbomax said:

yes .. but ...

not enough. there is a lot more to "the current weather" than we currently have, including weather history and programmatic access to weather, for example to create special weather related training scenarios. something that was possible even back in FSX/P3D.

As Jörg said, from around 2 million users, perhaps some few thousand are interested in those features. I am not one of them, but hope that they open the platform up for third-parties to grab that market.

57 minutes ago, Tom_L said:

Yep, it looks like they are about to change their "no third parties for core functions" paradigms. As I'm a bit invested in weather related threads over at the official forums, I'd like to share my thoughts on that (...):

I partially agree with your thoughts, but the decision to initially focus on the base scenery, regional updates and more "arcady" features has proven to be the correct one. 

Not only has MSFS successfully brought flight-simulation back to mainstream, but now more and more features are being released targeting the more hardcore simmer.  These releases are only possible because the sim now has a large enough user-base that makes investing in parallel, more advanced features possible. 

As for weather, what we currently have is much, much better than FSX/P3D have ever provided, even when live weather was supported. XP12 has just recently provided APIs for external weather providers, and I believe this will also be the case for MSFS down the road.

Edited May 16, 2023 by GCBraun

[turbomax 3,284]

6 minutes ago, GCBraun said:

As Jörg said, from around 2 million users, perhaps some few thousand are interested in those features.

this has been requested so many times and repeatedly ever since MSFS was released, and only "some few thousand are interested" ? 😄

I think, Joerg is playing this down for some reason. It hasn't even been available in MSFS and yet Joerg knows if I and "some few" would like to have such an addon?

for comparison: only 476 ! people voted in the market place for the discus Glider, yet Microsoft implemented Gliders. those are considerably less than "some few thousand users".

it would be a great start if they at least opened access to some weather variables via the SDK as we had in FSX/P3D, and as they did with traffic tools, the 3rd party developers will do the rest.