XP12 start times

[mSparks 2,086]

yep.

The biggest differences are that Im on linux and mac, and my XP11 had the screws tuned out of it.

Not felt the need to do that on XP12, because I spend so much longer in sim these days than I used to.

L16 ortho loads a lot quicker than the higher resolutions. longer initial load times is by far the biggest cost of going to l18 ortho.

I'm of the opinion that a chunk of the slight load time increase that comes with 12 is down to

the new water - there must be a load of extra set up to bind all the physics to the water bodies now in XP12 - There is some improvements stacked here, I hope some initialisation optimisation is also planned.

the seasons - there is a ton of extra data to load in around the current state and behaviour of the scenery like puddle build up, snow and chosing the vegitation state

I still find XP12 load times impressive though - and also really important for getting the most out of it, there is a massive difference between starting a sim 20 times in a row (e.g. when experimenting with settings or doing some development) when those starts take 30 seconds instead of 5 minutes.

Ive taken to "cheating" a little for XP12 load videos - pausing the recording for a short while during load just so you dont have to sit through it in the video

e.g. in

there is probably 30 seconds to a minute of load time cut out of that video - still impressive but pointless to leave in for a 20 second clip.

Its also my biggest complaint about windows in general - I bleeping bleep bleep bleeping da bleep hate waiting for computers, I know that is somewhat beyond a "1st world problem" but Im so used to

The horroshow that is windows is just not something I remotely have the patience for, and I struggle to understand how people put up with any less.

(you can see from the timestamps in those videos this also isnt the first time recently this conversation has popped up)

 

[Bjoern 1,153]

XP load times are much lower in Linux for me than in Windows, 10 or 11, on the same machine and SSD. This also applies to scanning files with the installer. Maybe it's an EXT4 vs NTFS thing.

[flying_carpet 657]

On 5/27/2023 at 2:02 AM, Bjoern said:

XP load times are much lower in Linux for me than in Windows, 10 or 11, on the same machine and SSD. This also applies to scanning files with the installer.

Is it really this significant? Reason I'm asking is, I'm thinking to dump Windows (not only for reasons regarding X-Plane but also others).

[mSparks 2,086]

6 hours ago, flying_carpet said:

Is it really this significant?

.-------------------.
| FILESYSTEM | TIME |
.-------------------.
|REISER4 lzo |  1938|
|REISER4 gzip|  2295|
|REISER4     |  3462|
|EXT4        |  4408|
|EXT2        |  4092|
|JFS         |  4225|
|EXT3        |  4421|
|XFS         |  4625|
|REISER3     |  6178|
|FAT32       | 12342|
|NTFS-3g     |>10414|
.-------------------.

in terms of xplane, getting file metadata like folder contents and filesize is blisteringly fast compared to ntfs.

This may also be the reason Im seeing reduced performance on this machine, because I used BTRFS for this install, and while some benchmarks show it outperforms, been seeing a lot showing it doesnt.

[bogdansrb 230]

Everything is better in Linux. Except for 3rd party support.

Edited May 29, 2023 by bogdansrb

[Gulfstream 416]

On 5/26/2023 at 3:46 AM, mSparks said:

The horroshow that is windows is just not something I remotely have the patience for, and I struggle to understand how people put up with any less.

 

Is this really necessary?

To give you some background, I'm a former US CPMEL/IA and I also worked at N90 NY TRACON, a Level 12 ATC Facility.

Then I lost my medical.  😠

So for the last 20+ years, I've been a software engineer, mostly working under Windows.

I have zero issues with my current build at the moment (Windows 11 22H2 OS Build 22621.1702).

I use it as both my daily driver for highly complex software engineering as well as AAA gaming.   No crashes, no stutters, no slow load time.  The thing just works.

On a three-year-old-laptop with a 1660TI.

Sorry, I had to chime in with this stuff.  I use Linux too, mostly under WSL, but these "Linux is the best, Windows is totally unusable" posts are ridiculous.

There is a reason Linux holds 2.76% of the desktop share in 2023.

It's been the "year of Linux on the Desktop" every year since around 1991. 

Ok, rant over.   Resume whatever it was we were talking about.  😂

Edited May 29, 2023 by Gulfstream

[Murmur 3,941]

40 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

There is a reason Linux holds 2.76% of the desktop share in 2023.

In the 2 most demanding computer applications though, it holds 80% (web servers) and 100% (supercomputers).

[Daube 348]

29 minutes ago, Murmur said:

In the 2 most demanding computer applications though, it holds 80% (web servers) and 100% (supercomputers).

Yes, Linux is definitely the best for the computers that can't be used by anybody.

 

 

[mSparks 2,086]

56 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

"Linux is the best, Windows is totally unusable" posts are ridiculous

for most things xplane, linux is best, someone asked how much better wrt disk times, so I grabbed a benchmark.

mac a close second

windows isnt even really in the race these days. 

59 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

Is this really necessary?

so yes, it would very much appear so. since even you point out

1 hour ago, Gulfstream said:

There is a reason Linux holds 2.76% of the desktop share in 2023.

->people aren't talking about how much better and when it is better enough.

And not just for the poor souls still grinding their foreheads on unoptimised, difficult to use and unreliable OS's like windows.

e.g. Id hazard a guess that many are still using FAT32 as their disk format, Ive seen machines in shops still shipping with it, according to those benchmarks ntfs would give them a 20% improvement in loadtimes, even if they are not ready to get the full 70% improvement switching to e.g. ext4.

1 hour ago, Gulfstream said:

year of Linux on the Desktop" every year since around 1991. 

I dumped windows with the release of windows 8, in 2012, it was a reasonably even competition until then, but windows hasnt had a look in since, with the last windows phone discontinued in 2017.

Now its 2023, and that matter is very settled tbh, even if it will likely be another 10 years before windows PC is discontinued, just due to inertia.

[Murmur 3,941]

23 minutes ago, Daube said:

Yes, Linux is definitely the best for the computers that can't be used by anybody.

Or for computers that require max performance and reliability! 😉

[Sethos 4,266]

27 minutes ago, Daube said:

Yes, Linux is definitely the best for the computers that can't be used by anybody.

Hah, good one.

[mSparks 2,086]

1 hour ago, Murmur said:

Or for computers that require max performance and reliability! 😉

back over in the uk for mums 70th bday and parents 50th wedding anniversary. 

dad messing on his windows laptop got me to google

https://www.easeus.com/resource/kernel-data-inpage-error.html

for him, on my android (aka linux) phone.

1 hour ago, Daube said:

Yes, Linux is definitely the best for the computers that can't be used by anybody.

 

 

there is a meme for that thinking

feel free to reuse and abuse.

[Gulfstream 416]

2 hours ago, mSparks said:

I dumped windows with the release of windows 8, in 2012, it was a reasonably even competition until then, but windows hasnt had a look in since, with the last windows phone discontinued in 2017.

Now its 2023, and that matter is very settled tbh, even if it will likely be another 10 years before windows PC is discontinued, just due to inertia.

That's fine, to each their own.

If Windows was a stuttery, bug-filled, crash-prone disaster it wouldn't be running on 1.4 billion machines right now.

Every office place would be total chaos.  98% of home users including my elderly father would be unable to easily use their computers (he has no problem with Windows either).

I'm just saying let's keep things in persepective.   If you're microanalyzing linux vs. mac vs. windows file access times to help measure the start-up of X-Plane, you are way out of my realm of expertise.  If something is going to take minutes, I don't care about whether or not some low-level system call or API is 32ms faster on Linux.

And I sit in front of these silly Windows computers for 12+ hours a day writing software that helps run this crazy planet.

[GoranM 3,762]

5 minutes ago, Gulfstream said:

That's fine, to each their own.

If Windows was a stuttery, bug-filled, crash-prone disaster it wouldn't be running on 1.4 billion machines right now.

Every office place would be total chaos.  98% of home users including my elderly father would be unable to easily use their computers (he has no problem with Windows either).

I'm just saying let's keep things in persepective.   If you're microanalyzing linux vs. mac vs. windows file access times to help measure the start-up of X-Plane, you are way out of my realm of expertise.  If something is going to take minutes, I don't care about whether or not some low-level system call or API is 32ms faster on Linux.

And I sit in front of these silly Windows computers for 12+ hours a day writing software that helps run this crazy planet.

A software engineer singing Windows' praises, claiming it's so reliable, it never crashes.  

If other software engineers are like you, using Windows to help "run this crazy planet", I'll be booking a trip on Elon's next trip to Mars.  I was running Windows, since Windows 95, up until Windows 10 in 2020.  Then I hesitantly got my first Mac because I heard about MacOS's reliability.  After a week, I decided I'm NEVER going back to Windows.  If I had to, I'd rather run Windows applications under Parallels, than ever do any work on a Windows PC.  For the sake of the planet, reconsider your options.  Windows does crash.  There is no way you haven't experienced some kind of crash on a Windows PC.  

Just because something is more popular, doesn't make it better than everything else.  

[Ray Proudfoot 8,903]

If you want to talk about OSs I can move this topic to the appropriate forum.

Alternatively you can stay on topic, XP12.