7 minutes ago, Krakin said:

That's the whole point of 2024 being made. To give us both. 2024 is being made as an answer to issues that cannot be fixed with the limitations of the current engine. Their goal is to make "the perfect sim". My advice would be to save the pessimism for the beta phase.

On the contrary my advice would be to keep expectations very low, they will never make "the perfect sim" for starters or get anywhere near close to that no matter how hard they think they will.

If anything their relentless need to ignore bugs, release new bugs in sim updates and blatantly brush issues under the carpet suggests we may well get a shiny new sim with a ton of issues that will never get fixed like with what we've got now.

After all they're only as good as their last product and I've seen nothing personally to suggest MSFS2024 will be any different, my monies on shiny new stuff but riddled with issues - hence my expectations are very low and I'll therefore be pleasantly surprised if they manage to exceed them.

58 minutes ago, MarcG said:

On the contrary my advice would be to keep expectations very low, they will never make "the perfect sim" for starters or get anywhere near close to that no matter how hard they think they will.

If anything their relentless need to ignore bugs, release new bugs in sim updates and blatantly brush issues under the carpet suggests we may well get a shiny new sim with a ton of issues that will never get fixed like with what we've got now.

After all they're only as good as their last product and I've seen nothing personally to suggest MSFS2024 will be any different, my monies on shiny new stuff but riddled with issues - hence my expectations are very low and I'll therefore be pleasantly surprised if they manage to exceed them.

So refreshing to read a post with such a positive outlook.. 😝 

1 hour ago, MarcG said:

If anything their relentless need to ignore bugs, release new bugs in sim updates and blatantly brush issues under the carpet

I bought the sim on the day of its release, and I've put in more hours with MSFS 2020 than with any of the other simulators I've owned over the years combined. 

I've maybe had two crashes, the sim looks fantastic, and it gave us study-level aircraft at dollar store prices. It runs like a champ, even on mediocre hardware. 

And the vast ecosystem of freeware mods, the frequent world and sim updates means that after the initial purchase you need not spend another dime. 

Does the sim have issues. Sure. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying the hell out of it. 

It's like saying that just because Kylie Jenner's left eye is slightly smaller than her right eye, I'm gonna refuse a date with her. 

1 hour ago, MarcG said:

On the contrary my advice would be to keep expectations very low, they will never make "the perfect sim" for starters or get anywhere near close to that no matter how hard they think they will.

If anything their relentless need to ignore bugs, release new bugs in sim updates and blatantly brush issues under the carpet suggests we may well get a shiny new sim with a ton of issues that will never get fixed like with what we've got now.

After all they're only as good as their last product and I've seen nothing personally to suggest MSFS2024 will be any different, my monies on shiny new stuff but riddled with issues - hence my expectations are very low and I'll therefore be pleasantly surprised if they manage to exceed them.

"Why am I addicted to being negative?

You may be wondering why this happens, well, it's really simple: Negative emotions activate both the beta-endorphine and dopamine pathways in our brains. These are the same pathways to activate pleasure; and people who are addicted to negativity get the same payoff as those who use drugs"

31 minutes ago, Bobsk8 said:

So refreshing to read a post with such a positive outlook.. 😝 

 

15 minutes ago, Ricardo41 said:

I bought the sim on the day of its release, and I've put in more hours with MSFS 2020 than with any of the other simulators I've owned over the years combined. 

I've maybe had two crashes, the sim looks fantastic, and it gave us study-level aircraft at dollar store prices. It runs like a champ, even on mediocre hardware. 

And the vast ecosystem of freeware mods, the frequent world and sim updates means that after the initial purchase you need not spend another dime. 

Does the sim have issues. Sure. But that doesn't stop me from enjoying the hell out of it. 

It's like saying that just because Kylie Jenner's left eye is slightly smaller than her right eye, I'm gonna refuse a date with her. 

 

15 minutes ago, Sethos said:

"Why am I addicted to being negative?

You may be wondering why this happens, well, it's really simple: Negative emotions activate both the beta-endorphine and dopamine pathways in our brains. These are the same pathways to activate pleasure; and people who are addicted to negativity get the same payoff as those who use drugs"

I prefer the words "realistic expectations" than negative, the evidence is there for all to see with many issues in practically most Sim Updates, there's no shying away from that. So where exactly is the "positive outlook" supposed to come from? In reality they've struggled to maintain a ship worthy product in 3 years at times (SU5 was a fiasco, SU7 was shambolic, the METAR integration STILL doesn't work correctly, the Tile Loading issue is years old now etc etc etc), I could sit back and pretend that "yeah it's going to be amazing, bug free and that they've learnt from their past mistakes" but I simply do not believe that at all.

I too have enjoyed hundreds of hours in this Sim, when it works it's bloody amazing there is no denying that, but unlike the relentless lovers of Jorgs square behind I have kept my head from buried in any sand pile when obvious major issues have plagued the Sim. I've seen many a game development in my decades of gaming, I know a poorly managed one when I see it and the development path of this one has been - at times - shockingly poor, the beta periods are pathetically poor (the current SU13 is a complete shambles) compared to what I've been involved with across multiple titles and their beta periods, the Quality Control is non-existent - the White Dot bug a prime example of something that should not of been allowed to release with AAU2.

Are you gonna tell me they won't do that again with MSFS2024? That every Sim Update will be rigorously tested until all regression bugs have been squashed? That any widely "voted" for bugs will get fixed in a timely manner and not brushed under the carpet? that they will actually pay attention to VR support properly? None of us can answer those questions, but I'm not gonna sit here and pretend it's going to be Roses & Rainbows with pretty Unicorns and that the sun shines out of Asobo Studios - I'm remaining realistic 🙂

(In the meantime Yes I will continue to enjoy this incarnation of MSFS, that is until Starfield comes out later this week 😋)

40 minutes ago, MarcG said:

 that they will actually pay attention to VR support properly?  😋

I have seen this complaint many times, but as a VR user enjoying the sim, cant really see what we are missing. Works well for me. Im not trying too say you guys are wrong, but Im just very curious what I am missing, because I dont feel there is anything to add to it…. Please tell me what I should expect so I can join the whining:p

There is one thing I am sure of. It will be very difficult after these 3 years spent with MSFS 2020 to reproduce the same enthusiasm for MSFS 2024.

 

1 hour ago, Kaboki said:

I have seen this complaint many times, but as a VR user enjoying the sim, cant really see what we are missing. Works well for me. Im not trying too say you guys are wrong, but Im just very curious what I am missing, because I dont feel there is anything to add to it…. Please tell me what I should expect so I can join the whining:p

No worries, these off the top of my head:

1. SU5 induced Bug on the Horizon, like a "wall" jumping up and down in certain conditions
2. SU7 induced "mouseover toolbar windows" bug preventing use of certain controls
3. Controller support not good enough (I don't use them myself but I often see this complaint)
4. Mirror on the desktop not a Single Image like practically every other VR game/sim in existence
5. Mouse Lagging, thoughts this was helped my raising Deadzones but doesn't work for everybody
6. General Performance is poor (if not using the excellent OpenXR Toolkit)
7. Over exposure still an issue (was very bad but improved somewhat, HMD dependant)
8. Engine Shutdown bug
9. Toolbar windows not remembering Position when closed and reopened, they used too and when it broke Asobos response was and I quote "wont fix"
10. No foveated rendering
11. Having to rely on OpenXR Toolkit and it's wealth of features & performance boost written by one bloke (with help from someone else) when a majority of the toolkits features should be in the Sim by default by now.

The main ones for me are the regression issues, lack of features and #11, it took too long for World Scale to be incorporated, the initial release of VR was a mess and they've done practically nothing to it since.

21 minutes ago, MarcG said:

No worries, these off the top of my head:

1. SU5 induced Bug on the Horizon, like a "wall" jumping up and down in certain conditions
2. SU7 induced "mouseover toolbar windows" bug preventing use of certain controls
3. Controller support not good enough (I don't use them myself but I often see this complaint)
4. Mirror on the desktop not a Single Image like practically every other VR game/sim in existence
5. Mouse Lagging, thoughts this was helped my raising Deadzones but doesn't work for everybody
6. General Performance is poor (if not using the excellent OpenXR Toolkit)
7. Over exposure still an issue (was very bad but improved somewhat, HMD dependant)
8. Engine Shutdown bug
9. Toolbar windows not remembering Position when closed and reopened, they used too and when it broke Asobos response was and I quote "wont fix"
10. No foveated rendering
11. Having to rely on OpenXR Toolkit and it's wealth of features & performance boost written by one bloke (with help from someone else) when a majority of the toolkits features should be in the Sim by default by now.

The main ones for me are the regression issues, lack of features and #11, it took too long for World Scale to be incorporated, the initial release of VR was a mess and they've done practically nothing to it since.

1. Never had this bug

2. Never had this bug

3. Dont use them either:p

4. Doesnt bother me:p

5. Dont have this bug

6. Lately Im getting just as good performance in steamvr (dont know if they changed something)

7. Doesnt bother me, dont even know what to look for..

8. Dont have this bug.

9. They stay where I put them, and comes back where i put them when closing and reopening. So I guess I dont have this bug either:p

10. Would be nice to have support for this one, but not sure if my headset supports it..

11. As long as openxr solves my issues, dont care If microsoft implements them, it just works for me. Would be nice if they did, but im not missing anything..

 

Not much on this list affects me, so all good for me:D. But I guess people affected by all of these issues would like to see them solved… 

Edited August 28, 20232 yr by Kaboki

7 hours ago, Krakin said:

I like how you labeled anyone having a difference of opinion in advance...

Like how you conflated my mention of gatekeepers (a very specific stereotype) to cover anyone who's opinion differs to mine, you are of course mistaken, there are plenty of other stereotypes I don't agree with😉

10 hours ago, Pathfinder633 said:

From what I've read so far this is basically the same game updated but they've had to give it a new Title so they can charge for it. (before the gatekeepers jump on me I'm not criticising im just a realist)

It really is a legit new version. Huge new features deserving of a new version, and considering all the extra freebies they've given us over the last 3 years (can't remember any other sim ever doing so)...

...it's completely reasonable for them to charge for v2024

my only question is why keep v2020 going after v2024 releases. Never heard of that approach before (other than security patches, etc.)

1 hour ago, UrgentSiesta said:

my only question is why keep v2020 going after v2024 releases.

Because not everyone is going to switch to 2024 right away.

2 hours ago, UrgentSiesta said:

why keep v2020 going after v2024 releases. Never heard of that approach before

Windows 10 was still available after Windows 11 was launched.

It's been discussed ad infinitum but I see no reason to continue releasing updates and backwards compatibility for MSFS2020 once the new sim is out, it's a waste of resources and a waste of time.

What they need to do is release one maybe two more Sim Updates full of bug fixes, no features, no shiny new things, fix the regression bugs they're well known for, fix the major issues then park it all and move on to MSFS2024 full time. 

I think we can see from the FS2020 roadmap that the updates etc will stop not long after FS2024 comes out? Certainly WU and SU etc anyway. 
 

Makes sense to me, I love FS2020 but can’t wait to see what FS2024 brings especially with the base scenery improvements. 
 

By the sounds of things, “virtually all” marketplace products will work in FS2024 and we’ll still have the current photogrammetry plus the new base scenery improvements and some great new career modes. More aircraft etc - I can’t wait. 
 

Hopefully we won’t have the bad old days SUs that broke lots of things in a ‘3 steps forward but 1 step back’ kind of way like we did in early FS2020 but I’m hopeful it will be far better plus the focus on cloud data will likely mean less CTD and blank screens etc for everyone, especially the console pilots.