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tgibson

Statistics on FS11 Wish List

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I really hope that the ATC gets a makeover as well, but I include SIDS/STARS in that so they need to be combined.Apart from that, I think people should stop being so extravagant in their suggestions...Yes it would be nice to have great graphics, but if they can't pull it off for FSX then I'm not holding out any hope for FS11.FS9 though runs beautifully on my machine right now, and if I had the same sim with Better ATC and the rest of the 'simple' suggestions like better push-back and the ability to click on a starting gate from a map, I'd be happy.Steve

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Guest The Wizard of Oz

Hi Wingnut,I had to condense items but I thought the item:6 Drivable realistic roads for land vehicleswould cover it.Re WOZ

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Guest The Wizard of Oz

Jeff,I hope I

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Here is the problem Aces will have.None of your wishes are mine-and I bet you are just as serious a simmer as I am.Extravagant is in the eye of the beholder... :-) Push back and start gate-what is that-I've never used that ever? :-)http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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Guest The Wizard of Oz

mmmmm,Could not load the manual but have requested alternative with authors.Re WOZ

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Guest tmilton

> I totally agree that the list is not a

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Guest jshyluk

Uh, oh, I've been unclear again. My gut was telling me that I would need to clarify my position even as my trigger finger was pressing the send button.I think the FS11 Wish List is a terrific idea, and I don't see it as a criticism of MSFS except on the most constructive level, which is a good thing.What I do disagree with is how some folks are choosing to interpret what ACES will do with the list (if anything), humour notwithstanding. It's just a waste of spirit at this point. And I liked the Frida movie as well, although I prefer movies with more machine guns, time portals, dinosaurs, and/or shiny helicopters. Certainly any and all are free to agree or disagree with me, however, I would encourage the side debate to continue in my e-mail rather than in this thread. It's more important here to discuss the Wish List rather than my personal belief system, which I will (mostly) gladly explain via hotmail. Jeff ShylukSenior Staff Reviewer, Avsim

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Guest The Wizard of Oz

Hi Jeff,Yes that's why I said:"I hope I

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Thanks for compiling THE LIST, WOZ. The top 12 items can really be simplified into four:1. ATC. It seems that this should not be too difficult, since some third party vendors have already created realistic ATC. Just takes a commitment to it on the part of MS.2. Graphics engine. These requests are very definitely going to require a new graphics engine. Another coat of paint on the FSX engine just is not going to keep up with all the advances in graphics cards and games. Although there are definitely differences between a FS and a FPS, those distinctions are starting to get blurred. Some FPS games now have dynamic ground shadows, 24-hour lighting, maps of several kilometres radius, moving vegetation, living beings, waves, etc., all rendered at blistering speeds. Personally, I think MS may need to license an appropriate and advanced engine for the scenery and focus their resources on all the other stuff a great flight sim needs such as ATC, AI, flight dynamics and the rest. MS has always been stronger at applications, work flow and data than at graphics. This point is drawing the most complaints in FSX from my reading of the posts.3. Flight dynamics. Definitely time to redo this. Very little has changed in several versions of FS. Obviously, many FS users are not pilots and would prefer more of an arcade feel to the planes. Real pilots and aerodynamic engineers who use FS would definitely like the flight dynamics of a real plane to be as accurately modeled as possible. There has long been a slider for flight realism in FS and putting the slider all the way to "accurate" should be true to life in future versions. Making this accurate for users would also make it accurate for AI.4. Environment. AI, autogen, landclass, mesh. These can be improved without excessive work. Just look at what is going on in FSX and make it better. Lots of good suggestions about this.Thanks to the MS ACES team for their good work. I've only used FS9 about three times since installing FSX. I know the FS series will just keep improving.

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I like your list but I have an opinion on "flight dynamics".My feeling is for instance:-the default Baron is pretty good on the numbers-I can fly almost exact power settings etc. as I do in my real plane and get almost exactly what I expect.The "feel" however is not right-and that comes in the hardware and its' feedback...and much of crucial areas of flight are done by feel.Every time I have one of my pilot friends who is not a flight simmer try to fly fs-the result is dismal-the "feeling" of the controls is so different from real flight right now that most can not even recognize basic flight dynamics. If you are used to simming and real flying you can compensate in your mind and fill the gaps-but there really is still not much resemblance here in how our present hardware "feels" and how the real flying "feels".If the yoke/rudder pedals do not convey the right feedback, the right motion and resistance, then no mathematical flight model will ever be right imho.I'd like to see developement in more realistic fight controls-that behave and feel like the real thing. I think force feedback was an attempt-but imho it isn't even close at all- ...I have to think the technology is there to do it right-but it hasn't been done yet.I'd like to see more things happening in this department-I have the new Saitek yoke ordered to replace my many year old ch pro yoke and hope there will be improvement here-but until the movement, forces, and feel are duplicated in the hardware I don't know how any flight model on a stationary computer monitor can ever have the right "feel" of a real aircraft-no matter how complex the fm is.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgForum Moderatorhttp://geofageofa.spaces.live.com/

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>3. Flight dynamics. Definitely time to redo this. Very little>has changed in several versions of FS. Obviously, many FS>users are not pilots and would prefer more of an arcade feel>to the planes. Real pilots and aerodynamic engineers who use>FS would definitely like the flight dynamics of a real plane>to be as accurately modeled as possible. There has long been a>slider for flight realism in FS and putting the slider all the>way to "accurate" should be true to life in future versions.>Making this accurate for users would also make it accurate for>AI.>I would hope that your line of thinking is NOT a change to something such as X-Plane's, for the sake of a "different" method of flight dynamic programming. In other words, "look up" tables versus "blade element theory".Both methods certainly have their hits and misses, but look up tables as used in MSFS work rather well in duplicating characteristics of known performance. There is nothing "arcade" about this method if it's a case of comparing to the X-Plane's way of doing it.Geoff A. has it correct, when it comes to controls & perceived feel. It's a combination of using controls with no real feedback & a "mind game" of what we see on the screen. A full blown motion sim with correct feeling feedback would always be the better way to go, give or take a few million in price difference...L.Adamson

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Guest TomOOO

Hum, tried to avoid these debates.From my background as a developer/manager of scientific softwarethe FS series is state of the art. Other programs that do "similar"scenes are not actually doing the same thing. In FS the aim isto provide some real global view - that is - the entire world isdefined in some form as mesh/textures and land classes. You average"game" has a set of generic views, or a very small area (island)to work with. Any one step (fps) in FS requires knowledge of the real world pointand what textures are to be placed in the field of view. Due totraffic packing requirements they use about 100 mile radius to definewhat might happen if you move in a particular direction. Essentiallyevery direction you could move is unique, every point has a differentmesh and land class, though textures may be generic and dependenton what you have loaded. How many airlines do you have (I have 25000 airlines/liveries/planes) in your AI, what about the airportscenery. Then there is weather, clouds and all sorts, all extensiveand unique. Don't confuse what FS does with most programs like Oblivian, or world of witch craft - this is a very different scale of problem.FS is excellent - just that our expectations are just a bit high - and does not matter what a developer does, the expectation of auser is always a bit higher than the delivery :) As for use of finite element analysis or parameterised equations -I think this needs a separate thread. Both are good or bad. Ialso agree with flying (glider in my case), yes I enjoy FS andit has some similarity with flying - but only up to a point. If nothing else it's going to hurt if you make a mistake.

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A lot of people didn't put their wishes up there, because it was previously asked for by earlier posters. Or am I mistaken and someone did an actual poll?

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Hi,According to the MS bloggers you can just about forget about #1 (ATC) and #11 (AI Aircraft). They said back when FSX was being developed that they consider this system as outdated, replaced by the Multiplayer system. It also takes a huge amount of resources for any improvements. Now I hope they have changed their minds, but they haven't said anything different since then...--Tom GibsonCal Classic Propliner Page: http://www.calclassic.comFreeflight Design Shop: http://www.freeflightdesign.comDrop by! ___x_x_(")_x_x___

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