No need for pilots anymore soon. In MSFS or Real.

[fluffyflops 1,749]

51 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

Yeah. Let's get rid of all the pilots for the sake of the 0.01% just to satisfy a blatantly obvious disdain for 'arrogant pilots'.

Because safety and stuff.

If the robots can fly it and land it why not, I agree with the other guy, it will never happen.  Driverless planes is one thing , driverless trains is another.

[g-liner 249]

1 hour ago, fluffyflops said:

Yes as I’ve said for the last 10 plus years on here, spend a day doing my job and you’ll find a lot (not all ) of pilots are not the hero’s and princesses they like to think they are. They are in it for themselves, no one else, unlike the Hero’s that treat and care for the sick  and vulnerable for example.

 

Wow you really sound like you dislike pilots. 

[sd_flyer 5,748]

1 hour ago, fluffyflops said:

Yes as I’ve said for the last 10 plus years on here, spend a day doing my job and you’ll find a lot (not all ) of pilots are not the hero’s and princesses they like to think they are. They are in it for themselves, no one else, unlike the Hero’s that treat and care for the sick  and vulnerable for example.

 

That is flufiest flop I ever read! LOL Heroes? Treat or care for the sick? What a "H" are you talking about? I would seriously start worry about mental health here. 

[WestAir 2,438]

Just now, g-liner said:

Wow you really sound like you dislike pilots. 

He does, but it's honestly not his fault. I've been on both sides of the aisle (I've worked for Crew Services before, and I've been a crew member before) and a lot of times both parties blame each other for the toxicity introduced by the company itself. I'm sure Fluffy can go into detail about times the OCC Manager had a group of FA's sit around on a WX or MX delay for a 16 hour day while they flew in fresh pilots to finish a flight, instead of calling in new FA's too. On the flip side, I just called crew a minute ago to go off sick in protest of a crappy change to my duty tonight (What should be an 8 hour day is now almost 13) and the guy was pretty rude. My report was 12:27 AM and I said "Calling in sick for tonight", and he rudely scolded me "12:27 am is tomorrow, not tonight. There's a pretty big difference, you should probably know it." 🙄

I get it. He doesn't have enough crews and the schedule changes aren't his fault. We're both mad at the company, not each other, but that's not who we deal with on the day to day.

[Swe_Richard 1,119]

43 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

Farmers are part of the 0.1% now?

Didn't realise that Combine Harvesters using automated processes made them part of the "filthy rich".

AI isn't going to work for airliners at any time in the next 20 years.

 

The thread was about airliners and AI was it not?

This general push for AI is 100% about making the morbidly obese cats even more morbidly obese. Sure. It will on occasion benefit a very specific subset of people outside said 0.1%. But taken in its entirety it offers nothing for the ones in the 99.99%. Your next flat-TV will not be cheaper. Your next vacation will not be cheaper either. 

To think that this entire idea isn't about making the grotesquely rich even more grotesquely rich is quite frankly too daft to even comment further. 

[WestAir 2,438]

5 minutes ago, Swe_Richard said:

The thread was about airliners and AI was it not?

This general push for AI is 100% about making the morbidly obese cats even more morbidly obese. Sure. It will on occasion benefit a very specific subset of people outside said 0.1%. But taken in its entirety it offers nothing for the ones in the 99.99%. Your next flat-TV will not be cheaper. Your next vacation will not be cheaper either. 

To think that this entire idea isn't about making the grotesquely rich even more grotesquely rich is quite frankly too daft to even comment further. 

I think there's a limit to it though. Sort of like the critical angle of attack, there's always a point where hoarding of wealth causes the economy to collapse and the whole pendulum to swing the other way.

The question is if AI and Automation is the equivalent to full back pressure on the proverbial yoke of our society. Maybe UBI will be the equivalent stick-shaker, but it's yet to be seen. All I know is if we set out to replace pilots, it won't stop there. Every job is at risk, even the people who design machine tools can be replaced with a machine that designs machines.

[Swe_Richard 1,119]

54 minutes ago, fluffyflops said:

If the robots can fly it and land it why not, I agree with the other guy, it will never happen.  Driverless planes is one thing , driverless trains is another.

But I rather have the conductor keep his or her job to be honest. At least here in Sweden it seems to be quite the nice job to have. As previously stated; removing these people from their jobs will not make your trip cheaper but the fat cats fatter. They simply don't need more fat.

I can give you a personal example. One of my kids is six years old. We went on a three hour train trip last week. He was elated. Even before the trip he wanted to be a conductor but when he saw the train pull up to the station he was beaming. He asked me if he one day could drive one of those trains. I would like him to have that opportunity. It's a respectable job to have and to aspire to. 

[rjquick 184]

Most people go to work every day to make money and they would like to make more money than they are currently making regardless of how much that is. They also tend to not be happy with people that make money than they do. People also tend to put excess money in the bank rather than give it to other people that desperately need it. No one feels bad that they do this, but they do feel bad that other people do.

[fluffyflops 1,749]

1 hour ago, WestAir said:

He does, but it's honestly not his fault. I've been on both sides of the aisle (I've worked for Crew Services before, and I've been a crew member before) and a lot of times both parties blame each other for the toxicity introduced by the company itself. I'm sure Fluffy can go into detail about times the OCC Manager had a group of FA's sit around on a WX or MX delay for a 16 hour day while they flew in fresh pilots to finish a flight, instead of calling in new FA's too. On the flip side, I just called crew a minute ago to go off sick in protest of a crappy change to my duty tonight (What should be an 8 hour day is now almost 13) and the guy was pretty rude. My report was 12:27 AM and I said "Calling in sick for tonight", and he rudely scolded me "12:27 am is tomorrow, not tonight. There's a pretty big difference, you should probably know it." 🙄

I get it. He doesn't have enough crews and the schedule changes aren't his fault. We're both mad at the company, not each other, but that's not who we deal with on the day to day.

I have also worked both sides, I was a cabin crew moving up to a cabin supervisor (10 years) and I’ve worked in flight planning, ops , crew control and rostering. (13 years)
 

it’s only when you’ve done both you get a bigger picture, I don’t dislike all pilots, but in my 23 year career I’ve found a large number (not all) of pilots are insufferable, the longer they do it, the more jaded and insufferable they become, just like the guys like me in occ, the more years we spend dealing with their silliness’s and the more jaded we become.

23 years ago we didn’t remove cabin crew off roster for poorly cats that are emotional support mechanisms

23 years ago we didn’t have to overcrew flights at half term if the snow was good in meribel for pilots 

23 years ago we didnt remove people from flights due to fatigue reports for landing back from your 14 day holiday to Barbados (which they chose ) on a Monday before a rostered duty on a Tuesday which they call in fatigued for

23 years ago we didn’t have to create extra standbys when it was Brighton pride due to high sickness

 

these are just of the top of my head, get rid of crew and replace with robots that don’t have pets, go sick for ski weekends in France, book holidays the day before their duty’s or demand to have the day off for a event .

you’d get rid of those examples with a robot which cost you money, but which are now very very commonplace.  
 

The airlines would save millions, but again I’d also be out of a job, so doesn’t help me neither

 

 

Edited August 18 by fluffyflops

[fluffyflops 1,749]

2 hours ago, g-liner said:

Wow you really sound like you dislike pilots. 

I dislike people who take the mickey and complain about parts of their jobs they signed up to do.

again come sit in my office for a week i guarantee you’d say the same,

every maternity , long term sick or secondment person I’ve ever met whose come into iocc (I’d say 50 to 75 I’ve met over the years) have all said the same.  “I never realised it was like this, my god”

Edited August 18 by fluffyflops

[fluffyflops 1,749]

1 hour ago, sd_flyer said:

That is flufiest flop I ever read! LOL Heroes? Treat or care for the sick? What a "H" are you talking about? I would seriously start worry about mental health here. 

I’ve more time for cancer doctors, palliative nurses and special needs teachers for example, than I’ll ever have for primaddona drivers. 
 

sorry that’s my opinion 
 

Edited August 18 by fluffyflops

[Swe_Richard 1,119]

37 minutes ago, rjquick said:

Most people go to work every day to make money and they would like to make more money than they are currently making regardless of how much that is. They also tend to not be happy with people that make money than they do. People also tend to put excess money in the bank rather than give it to other people that desperately need it. No one feels bad that they do this, but they do feel bad that other people do.

The societal problem is not that people (the 'working' and 'middle class') have excess money each month. It is good to have something saved for later.

We are talking about people that already have a 1000ft yacht with a helipad (when they urgently need to get to the next holiday resort, I mean very, very, very important business meeting). 

Jeff Bezos doesn't care if his employees have time for bathroom breaks during their shifts. He would rather they'd be given a small government check (also known as UBI) each month and have robots deliver his garbage. It would significantly increase his already obscene earnings. 

These are the people benefitting from this idiocy, not you and I. 

[F737MAX 4,796]

2 hours ago, Swe_Richard said:

This general push for AI is 100% about making the morbidly obese cats even more morbidly obese. Sure. It will on occasion benefit a very specific subset of people outside said 0.1%

Nonsense. You sound like the people complaining about the invention of the internal combustion engine taking the work away from horse handlers or computers taking work away from [insert name of obsolete profession here].

Not only did you conveniently ignore the articles I linked on how prices fall in real terms, you also fail to recognise that pension funds are the usually the largest shareholders in many of the World's biggest companies. Profits generated by companies pay dividends to these funds for them to subsequently pay out as annuities. A lot of these pensions are held by the middle classes and the working classes (in some countries at least) are being brought into non-state-provided pension plans.

Getting back to the AI question, as mentioned by others earlier, fuel prices will be the biggest determinant of ticket prices. However, all things being equal, if humans were removed from the flight deck, real prices would fall as the high labour cost of pilots would be removed.

The MSFS2020 world would never have come into being, nor would 'turning 2-D into 3-D' be possible in MSFS2024, without AI. Should we prevent progress because MS didn't hire hundreds of people to create the MSFS world?

 

1 hour ago, rjquick said:

No one feels bad that they do this, but they do feel bad that other people do.

Almost correct. This thread is typical of social media's bias of 'CaPiTaLiSm BaD' despite enjoying the incredible benefits the model brings and the fact that billions of people's lives have been improved because of it. Opponents from the #BeKind mob always think that "the rich" should pay, despite these antagonists forming part of the global 1 percenters.

Edited August 18 by F737MAX

[David Mills 4,183]

3 hours ago, cmpbellsjc said:

Is that one of those $10k RealDolls? I saw a documentary on those years ago about an emerging market for those things. 

Yes. I bought it back in 2014. I believe the documentary you saw was probably one widely circulated by the BBC. But I too produced a film on the subject: https://youtu.be/WqjYwtcBwFc . My own "documentary" was more a promotion of my standup comedy routine with the doll than a story about Artificial Intelligence.

 

[jon b 1,798]

10 hours ago, WestAir said:

There's nothing a human can do that a machine eventually cannot.

Except….be human, and understand all that that entails.