Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
andymandy

No need for pilots anymore soon. In MSFS or Real.

Recommended Posts

40 minutes ago, F737MAX said:

Nonsense. You sound like the people complaining about the invention of the internal combustion engine taking the work away from horse handlers or computers taking work away from [insert name of obsolete profession here].

Not only did you conveniently ignore the articles I linked on how prices fall in real terms, you also fail to recognise that pension funds are the usually the largest shareholders in many of the World's biggest

This is absolutely adorable. You, sir, are a sure champion of 'cApiTalism' (or however you spelled it in your effort to discredit me).

The articles I so 'conveniently ignored' didn't talk about AI or automation now did they? Hence they were totally irrelevant to my argument. I will humor you, though.

The WEF one was very short, but with a nice graph I suspect impressed you greatly (be sure to subscribe to their newsletter for updates on their 'Agenda'). The other one seemed to try to explain supply and demand. We all know about supply and demand. How, exactly, did these articles nullify my stance about AI and the fact that automation will, undoubtedly benefit the 0.1%? You called my position 'nonsense' after all?

You also speak about obsolete professions. AI seems to be on the verge (at least according to the believers) to make many obsolete. What will all those 'obsolete' people do for a living? The combustion engine replaced the horse, and people learned to drive (your analogy). When robots do all the 'menial' things, what is left?

Do you see any kind of societal hazard in this situation or do you think everyone will be happy with their UBI-check?

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Richard

7950x3d   |   32Gb 6000mHz RAM   |   8Tb NVme   |   RTX 4090    |    MSFS    |    P3D    |      XP12  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, jon b said:

Except….be human, and understand all that that entails.

For now. There's an argument to be made that artificial intelligence can fully encapsulate everything unique about us while introducing its own unique perception. I'm sure a time will come where some team manages to give their project brand new emotions, senses or feelings completely foreign to the human experience.

On a personal level, I find the idea that our creations might go beyond us to be rather cool. I think the humbling realization that we're not all that special might challenge us to be better ourselves. Or perhaps I'm just naive.


Take-offs are optional, landings are mandatory.
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
To make a small fortune in aviation you must start with a large fortune.

There's nothing less important than the runway behind you and the altitude above you.
It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Swe_Richard said:

The societal problem is not that people (the 'working' and 'middle class') have excess money each month. It is good to have something saved for later.

We are talking about people that already have a 1000ft yacht with a helipad (when they urgently need to get to the next holiday resort, I mean very, very, very important business meeting). 

Jeff Bezos doesn't care if his employees have time for bathroom breaks during their shifts. He would rather they'd be given a small government check (also known as UBI) each month and have robots deliver his garbage. It would significantly increase his already obscene earnings. 

These are the people benefitting from this idiocy, not you and I. 

My grandfather liked to talk about his first 2 jobs as a kid. A pin setter at a bowling alley and helping deliver chipped ice to homes for their 'ice box'. Neither of those jobs now exist nor are needed. The list of manual labor jobs, many of which were not pleasant, that are now automated or handled by computer is enormous.

Personally, I wouldn't want to fly in an airliner that didn't have live pilots in the cockpit. But, let's be honest, they are mainly overseeing the computers that handle the majority of the flight. It used to take some skill and know-how just to start an aircraft engine, now you press a button and watch. It used to take a 4 person crew to handle a large aircraft. Engineer and navigator are no longer needed. I do not think we are at a point where automation can be completely trusted with the lives of passengers although... humans can't be either, which is why the automation exists. They keep an eye on each other and it works well for the foreseeable future IMO.

Where do you draw the line between utilizing technology and purposely forgoing it to keep people on the payroll for humanitarian reasons? I believe there will always be situations where humans are best suited for the job. For as long as humans still desire to interact with other humans (that desire seems to be dwindling though, sadly).

Yes, businesses make more money from doing things more efficiently and it also gives them a competitive advantage. At least until someone else figures out a way do to it even more efficiently. That game has gone on as far back as one can look and isn't likely to change.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I put my phone in airplane mode and it called me Shirley.

But seriously there's no reason to be Luddites.

Edited by Sonosusto
  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Hero X--8086k@5.1ghz--32GBddr4--2080ti--Acer GSync 4k Monitor + 1080p Monitor--Honeycomb Alpha/Bravo+Saitek Pedals--Thrustmaster T16000+Throttle. P2ATC, AIG/FSLTL, GSX, 600gb of scenery, PMS/TDI 750, Auto FPS, FG Mod, FSrealistic, FScrewRAAS,RexTextures/Seasons,Navigraph etc

A2A Comanche---Bae146, F28, Arrow(s), BS Bonanza & BS King Air---FSR500--COWS DA42---Fx HJet+VisionJet---FSW 414 +LearJet---FSS E175+P2006T+Analog Version---Fenix 320-------PMDG DC-6+737+9---C22J---Milviz C310+Porter---SWS PC-12, Kodiak, Zenith+RV14---Big Radialsl Goose---IFE MB339+F-35---NextGen EMB----Carenado Seneca + PC12---AS CRJ Series----Asobo ATR---

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AI is to Computer Science / Information Technology as Quantum Physics is for Quantum Cosmology...

I believe there's a LOT more to it than simply replicating and optimizing the generation of solutions, algorithms, even theories and their limited chances of use out of a very specific scope, as Godel's Theorem so well exposes.

There is an "infinite" myriad of processes that fall well beyond the scope of creating "thinking machines", such as, but surely not only: Mental Phenomena Don’t Map Into the Brain as Expected | Quanta Magazine

This doesn't mean that it's not great to have machines doing stuff, or helping humans doing stuff. Autopilots as we have known them for quite a long time now, capable of "solving" all sorts of navigation tasks as good as they're "taught" how to are really great aid, and while autolands have long been implemented in Aviation, it still has a very special effect on me watching a big airliner performing an autoland, specially under nasty weather conditions.

I have no problem with crews composed of human and robot elements. But as anything a robot "can be" and "do" depends canonically in what humans created, and we humans are so prone to fail, honestly would never feel safer being in an aircraft fully controlled by machines than one supervised by humans :-)


Main Simulation Rig:

Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti, 1 TB & 500 GB M.2 nvme drives, Win11.

Glider pilot since 1980...

Avid simmer since 1992...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wonder what would happen to bees, and in turn the whole ecosystem, if they were told that they were no longer needed to make honey as the process had been automated.

There is surely more to our existence than sat vaping, streaming Netflix into your face while machines perform the tasks we used to.

  • Like 3
  • Upvote 2

787 captain.  

Previously 24 years on 747-400.Technical advisor on PMDG 747 legacy versions QOTS 1 , FS9 and Aerowinx PS1. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, jon b said:

There is surely more to our existence than sat vaping, streaming Netflix into your face while machines perform the tasks we used to.

If that is the best you can come up with if you had all the free time in the world then yes, it's perhaps not for you.


i9-12900K - Maximus Z690 Hero - Asus Strix 3090 - 32GB DDR5 - 1200W HX - H150i ELITE LCD - 980 Pro / Firecuda 530 - HOTAS Warthog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, St Mawgan said:

If that is the best you can come up with if you had all the free time in the world then yes, it's perhaps not for you.

Jobs aside, it would be pretty neat to live in a post-work society. Your biggest worry being what hobbies to invest your time into.

Personally I'd invest time into flight simming or GA, to relive the good ol' days. 😂


Take-offs are optional, landings are mandatory.
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
To make a small fortune in aviation you must start with a large fortune.

There's nothing less important than the runway behind you and the altitude above you.
It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/18/2023 at 12:51 AM, WestAir said:

I've always wondered where the line will be drawn (if any ever is) with automation of jobs. Do we just stop at the transportation industry or do we automate entertainment too? Will we ever see AI politicians? CEO's? Doctors?

Obviously the goal of automation is to enhance safety, efficiency, and provide a need; But I can't help but feel like one of our needs is to be needed. That's something you can't automate.

Once everyone's job has been automated and no one in society has any income or savings left, who's going to buy what the 'automation' produces? 

  • Like 2

i7 12700K , 32GB RAM @3600MHz, Asus Z690-Plus D4 MB, Gainward 4090 RTX Graphics, 850W Corsair PSU, Kraken AIO watercooler, Nvme 1TB ssd, 1TB ssd, 500GB ssd.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the military side, the war in Ukraine has proven that human pilots are soon a thing of the past, AI drones have proven to be far more effective, and I am convinced that the same will happen on the civilian side sooner or later.

  • Upvote 1

System: I ASRock X670E | AMD 7800X3D | 32Gb DDR5 6000 | RTX 4090 | 2TB NVMe | LG Ultra Gear 34* UW |

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Swe_Richard said:

You also speak about obsolete professions. AI seems to be on the verge (at least according to the believers) to make many obsolete.

Again, nonsense.

Same luddite and conspiracy theory arguments used for every profession ever lost to technological advances or change in consumer preferences. See how many jobs are obsolete here: https://www.worldthroughthelens.com/family-history/old-occupations.php

Do we miss the majority of these? Now think about all the jobs that currently exist that are: a) safer, b) accomplish more in a working week, c) bring benefits to a vastly wider audience, e.g. satellite engineers or DNA sequencing scientists.

In fact

Quote

A 2011 study by McKinsey’s Paris office found that the Internet had destroyed 500,000 jobs in France in the previous 15 years—but at the same time had created 1.2 million others, a net addition of 700,000, or 2.4 jobs created for every job destroyed.


AMD Ryzen 5800X3D; MSI RTX 3080 Ti VENTUS 3X; 32GB Corsair 3200 MHz; ASUS VG35VQ 35" (3440 x 1440)
Fulcrum One yoke; Thrustmaster TCA Captain Pack Airbus edition; MFG Crosswind rudder pedals; CPFlight MCP 737; Logitech FIP x3; TrackIR

MSFS; Fenix A320; A2A PA-24; HPG H145; PMDG 737-600; AIG; RealTraffic; PSXTraffic; FSiPanel; REX AccuSeason Adv; FSDT GSX Pro; FS2Crew RAAS Pro; FS-ATC Chatter

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, St Mawgan said:

If that is the best you can come up with if you had all the free time in the world then yes, it's perhaps not for you.

It isn’t, I wasn’t speaking about me personally, but sadly for a reasonable size of the population it will be.


787 captain.  

Previously 24 years on 747-400.Technical advisor on PMDG 747 legacy versions QOTS 1 , FS9 and Aerowinx PS1. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 hours ago, fluffyflops said:

I’ve more time for cancer doctors, palliative nurses and special needs teachers for example, than I’ll ever have for primaddona drivers. 
 

sorry that’s my opinion 
 

If there "primaddona" drivers than there  are "primaddona" doctors and "primaddona" special need teachers otherwise it's fallacy of hasty generalization 


flight sim addict, airplane owner, CFI

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/17/2023 at 1:44 PM, andymandy said:

Yeah, no. You’ll never convince people to get in an airplane without pilots. Not in this lifetime anyway. 
 

But it does remind me of a good joke. The airline of the future will have a pilot and a dog. The pilot’s job is to feed the dog, the dog’s job is to bite the pilot if he tries to touch anything. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 8/18/2023 at 8:37 AM, PilotPete99 said:

I have no plans to ever board a plane without a human pilot on board. 
 

Cheers, Pete

I think everyone on this forum is safe in that regard 😃

The day is coming when such a thing will be the norm -  but I doubt our generations will see it.

There is much very heavy work to do before handing over 500 to 600 pax to AI and send it across the oceans on a 15 hour jolly.

We already have a whiff of what the advanced future will bring - Garmin Autoland. This is the first rung of the ladder. This feature can call ATC, declare emergency, turn to nearest suitable airport, fly the approach & land all by itself whilst telling the people on board whats happening in plain English on the displays. In 1995 if someone had told me this was comin' I'd have been "LOL"

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Tom Allensworth,
    Founder of AVSIM Online


  • Flight Simulation's Premier Resource!

    AVSIM is a free service to the flight simulation community. AVSIM is staffed completely by volunteers and all funds donated to AVSIM go directly back to supporting the community. Your donation here helps to pay our bandwidth costs, emergency funding, and other general costs that crop up from time to time. Thank you for your support!

    Click here for more information and to see all donations year to date.
×
×
  • Create New...