discovery

[4df5 4]

I just found out about the Tobii eye tracker....I am always late to the party... it seems really cool and the reviews are good.

A couple of things I was wondering about....I guess you can turn off eye tracking but keep head tracking on...

That interests me because looking at a computer screen nowadays is enough of an assault on the eyeball...its not natural light.

So I would be concerned if there were two IF rays shooting at my eyes also...I would probably just use the head tracker..if you have used this device what do you think of it and also about my concerns in this post? 

I think the price is reasonable..

[mjrhealth 733]

Think you dont understand, it simply uses a webcam and tracks your eye movement. I use trakir with xcamera, but only use it on take off and landing, really dont need it once your up.

[strider1 566]

4 hours ago, 4df5 said:

I just found out about the Tobii eye tracker....I am always late to the party... it seems really cool and the reviews are good.

A couple of things I was wondering about....I guess you can turn off eye tracking but keep head tracking on...

That interests me because looking at a computer screen nowadays is enough of an assault on the eyeball...its not natural light.

So I would be concerned if there were two IF rays shooting at my eyes also...I would probably just use the head tracker..if you have used this device what do you think of it and also about my concerns in this post? 

I think the price is reasonable..

I have the tobii eye tracker, i never use it. It does not feel natural. If you move your head(vision) to the left, your monitor is still in the same spot. if you look further to the left you see less of your monitor. Another words if you want to look at your left wing, you can longer see your monitor or the left wing since your monitor did not follow your head/vision. Of course you can adjust the degrees of head movement vs tracking but then it gets to jerky and unrealistic.  

My best advise is to invest in a VR headset!  

And yes you can disable the eye tracking. 

[philmurfin 70]

For me, Tobli is far more natural than having a VR set strapped around my head.

Also, personally they make me feel ill very quickly, plus you look stupid.

Best .... Phil

[Bjoern 1,051]

https://github.com/AIRLegend/aitrack + https://github.com/opentrack/opentrack = a 0 € headtracking solution. Just a webcam needed, nothing else.

[Pe11e 751]

16 hours ago, philmurfin said:

For me, Tobli is far more natural than having a VR set strapped around my head.

Also, personally they make me feel ill very quickly, plus you look stupid.

Best .... Phil

How can looking at monitor be more natural, without depth perception and 1:1 scale, than being in the sim/virtual cockpit, with natural depth perception and 1:1 scale, and head movements are also 1:1? Makes no sense.
I get the fatigue related remarks, that's logical, some people can wear it, some can't. I can wear it for hours, and I feel less eye fatigue than looking at the monitor (I have weak right eye muscle, struggling to focus after couple of hours). But claiming that looking at 2D picture, moving the view with the eyes, without the possibility to turn the head 90 or any number of degrees in any direction, is more natural than VR, is just mind boggling to me.

[mjrhealth 733]

30 minutes ago, Pe11e said:

is just mind boggling to me.

Not to me. Fine with trakir. And i have bad eyesite too. Not willing to worsen it by having bright lights 2 " from them. Hate to find out what its doing.

Besides its just our opinion, no more. We all have the right to our opinions. Well we where once upon a time.

Edited August 19 by mjrhealth

[Pe11e 751]

49 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

Not to me. Fine with trakir. And i have bad eyesite too. Not willing to worsen it by having bright lights 2 " from them. Hate to find out what its doing.

Besides its just our opinion, no more. We all have the right to our opinions. Well we where once upon a time.

I'm using VR for 3 years already, and so far absolutely no negative effects. Lenses in the headsets do their job. I had a diopter removal laser surgery in April 2021 (app. 6 months after I got Rift S), and I have 1 to 2 eye checkups per year, as per post-surgery rules. So 2 years after the surgery, and using Quest 2 for 18 months, the eyes are still like new, no need to worry. 🙂 I bet that the monitor does more harm, as the eye focuses at 40-50cm. In VR, my eyes are focusing on infinity, so no eye strain at all. But as always, VR or monitor, nothing is good for a prolonged time, and you need to make 5 minute pauses after 1hr of use. Again, no difference. Also, it depend on the set of eyes you have, my eyes hate the monitor, it's been that for years.

Edited August 19 by Pe11e

[mjrhealth 733]

1 minute ago, Pe11e said:

I'm using VR for 3 years already, and so far absolutely no negative effects. Lenses in the headsets do their job. I had a diopter removal laser surgery in April 2021 (app. 6 months after I got Rift S), and I have 1 to 2 eye checkups per year, as per post-surgery rules. So 2 years after the surgery, the eyes are still like new, no need to worry. 🙂 I bet that the monitor does more harm, as the eye focuses at 40-50cm. In VR, my eyes are focusing on infinity, so no eye strain at all. But as always, VR or monitor, nothing is good for a prolonged time.

Thats fine but I have like many, no interest in VR. As I said to another, I only wear trakir on take off and landing has absolutely no use rest of flight. Makes me wonder if you all have investments in the companies.

[Pe11e 751]

18 minutes ago, mjrhealth said:

Thats fine but I have like many, no interest in VR. As I said to another, I only wear trakir on take off and landing has absolutely no use rest of flight. Makes me wonder if you all have investments in the companies.

Investments? Lol, no, not even close. Just been Godsmacked and amazed how good VR technology is. I will never forget my first flights with the Rift S in Aerofly FS2 and XP11, and the sheer excitement I felt. Not a single flightsim controller, hardware or addon I purchased in the past years matches even 50% of that excitement when I flew in VR first few times. When someone is amazed and excited about something, every time using it, you will hear preaching, that's normal. It was the same like 10-15 years ago when you guys where amazed by TrackIR, which I hated with all my gut to be honest. I had glasses that time, and I was struggling a lot to look at the monitor when turning my head, as the glasses were in the way. Not to mention utterly unnatural and awkward way to look around by turning the head like 20 degrees, never succeeded to get used to it, and I tried for 6 months. Tried various curves, sensitivities, you name it, I always went back to rotating the view with the hat switch, it was way less awkward.

And yep, many RW pilots will say how VR is the closest you can get to RL flying. They will certainly not say the same about TrackIR. But yeah, you will see majority of RW pilots use TrackIR or nothing at all, simply as they are focusing on practicality of streaming the video on YT, which is complicated with the VR headset on.

Edited August 20 by Pe11e

[mSparks 2,008]

2 hours ago, mjrhealth said:

We all have the right to our opinions.

20 hours ago, strider1 said:

My best advise is to invest in a VR headset!  

This, this, and also this.

Although, next year PSVR2 Aces of Thunder and Apple Vision drop, I have little doubt they will become the benchmark everyone compares against, so its not quite that simple.

 

1 hour ago, mjrhealth said:

I only wear trakir on take off and landing has absolutely no use rest of flight.

..

Thats fine but I have like many, no interest in VR.

I'd recommend then switching to opentrack + aitrack linked by Bjeorn

Don't have to wear anything, for a 0 € upgrade.

I have to say though, the whole VR conversation currently feels a lot like trying to convince a small child the strawberries and cream almost certainly won't taste anything like the horse radish they tried last week, even if they are similar colours.

personal anecdote, I was recently asked to make the voice recognition in headset popup optional in AutoATC - because the popup reminded them they were not actually sat in the cockpit, this one request solidiified for me what people mean by "immersion" - completely forgetting you are not really there (did I say that already somewhere?).

There are still downsides, limited number of aircraft performant enough to actually enjoy it (e.g. forget the Zibo or CL650) probably being the current #1 problem. Pretty sure I mentioned in the "state of the sparky" thread, getting a tubeliner into VR has been my #1 motivation for developing her, eclipsing my #2 motivation (having a reliable plane that can fly itself to test AutoATC in)

Edited August 20 by mSparks

[mjrhealth 733]

@Pe11e thats nice. But wont get me to buy something i dont want or need. Rather spend the money on a better GPU.

[MrBitstFlyer 3,637]

12 hours ago, Pe11e said:

How can looking at monitor be more natural, without depth perception and 1:1 scale, than being in the sim/virtual cockpit, with natural depth perception and 1:1 scale, and head movements are also 1:1? Makes no sense.

VR is a remarkable step forward for simulation, yet I don't use mine for Flight Sim.  I use VR for sim racing because the screen is the only thing I need to look at.  When using XP12 & MSFS, I use Garmin Pilot EFB on my tablet, so VR is a no go.  My PC is not up to the job of smooth performance in XP12 plus I don't like the resolution drop of my HP Reverb G2. 

I calibrate my monitor so the brightness, contrast and colours are spot on.  I set my FOV accurately, so everything in the sim world is the correct distance and size - in MSFS I can use my HD600 monitor to boost brightness for more realism.  My Yoke, Throttle and stick have tens of buttons and sliders that I prefer to see - I have two throttle setups with one of them having having 20 small buttons, axis and knobs - no way can I feel for the correct one.

So rather than it making no sense to use a monitor, it is perfectly logical to use one based on personal preference.

Edited August 20 by MrBitstFlyer

[mjrhealth 733]

9 hours ago, mSparks said:

I have to say though, the whole VR conversation currently feels a lot like trying to convince a small child the strawberries and cream almost certainly won't taste anything like the horse radish they tried last week, even if they are similar colours.

I  just cant understand why some seem to shove it down our throats. I have no use for VR and what makes you think I dont like eating horse radish.

[philmurfin 70]

13 hours ago, Pe11e said:

How can looking at monitor be more natural, without depth perception and 1:1 scale, than being in the sim/virtual cockpit, with natural depth perception and 1:1 scale, and head movements are also 1:1? Makes no sense.
I get the fatigue related remarks, that's logical, some people can wear it, some can't. I can wear it for hours, and I feel less eye fatigue than looking at the monitor (I have weak right eye muscle, struggling to focus after couple of hours). But claiming that looking at 2D picture, moving the view with the eyes, without the possibility to turn the head 90 or any number of degrees in any direction, is more natural than VR, is just mind boggling to me.

The human brain works many things however, my personal model of the human brain won't let me forget if I have a heavy uncomfortable alien device strapped to my head.

To be honest, I have felt quite claustrophobic when I've ever tried VR, they are certainly not for me I'm afraid, not even if they were giving them away.

I can appreciate what you get out of VR and I really hope they continue to evolve and give you even more pleasure  however, VR is not for everyone