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Fenix Update Released

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16 minutes ago, Aamir said:

I will say this much. The flap 3 pitch attitude is incorrect.

So is it a compromise between proper pitch or proper lift at Flaps 3?

Just for the crowd to better understand why a flaps 3 landing might require less than normal pitch down.

Edited by WestAir

Take-offs are optional, landings are mandatory.
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
To make a small fortune in aviation you must start with a large fortune.

There's nothing less important than the runway behind you and the altitude above you.
It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

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Just now, WestAir said:

So is it a compromise between proper pitch or proper lift at Flaps 3?

Just for the crowd to better understand why a flaps 3 landing might require less than normal pitch down.

It's a compromise for now - we're fixing it in the next update by externalising some factors, but for now you have a lot less pitch when on a glideslope than you should have in Flap 3 configuration. Flap full is ok.

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Aamir Thacker

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In that case it's really poor taste of Emi to make such a video. He stated he should be getting much more nose down input when he lets go which is factually incorrect given his pitch attiude. He also pulls instead of pushes for managed speed and then comments that the behavior is incorrect.

A lot of non-pilots are going to see that and just say, as @sidfadc did, "It flies like a potato." when it's doing exactly what it's supposed to.

That must suck, from a developers POV.

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Take-offs are optional, landings are mandatory.
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
To make a small fortune in aviation you must start with a large fortune.

There's nothing less important than the runway behind you and the altitude above you.
It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

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For A320 I only rely on V1 simulation and Blackbox711. I have follow Blackbox711 since the fslabs days in p3d. He actually raised the F3 issue to @Aamir in the last stream and I can see it has been improved with this release. Time to go back flying!

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Ramon De Valencia

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1 hour ago, sidfadc said:

Also if the plane has trouble in the flare and landing then everything else really doesn’t matter.  Not sure about everyone else but the landing phase is the part I enjoy the most!!

Totally agree it looked really bad in the video.


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3 hours ago, sidfadc said:

At work just watching 737NG Driver on Youtube, it flared like a ballooned potato still.  Disappointing.

What is disappointing here is this video.

Looking at his rotation and his flare it seems to me he has issues with his hardware and/or finding an appropriate sensitivity / extremity deadzone setting, rather than an issue with the Fenix. Or he deliberately pulled the stick excessively to make the Fenix look bad.

Anyway I did a few patterns with the new Fenix and on my system it doesn't look like that at all. The flaring feels smooth and realistic, it is easily controllable. I haven't seen any ballooning. It is another improvement over the already nice last version. I made five landings in a row with around 150 FPM.

Well done Fenix!

Disclaimer: The only type rating for the A320 I have is on A Pilot's Life. 😉

 

Edited by RALF9636
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16 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

What is disappointing here is this video.

Looking at his rotation and his flare it seems to me he has issues with his hardware and/or finding an appropriate sensitivity / extremity deadzone setting, rather than an issue with the Fenix. Or he deliberately pulled the stick excessively to make the Fenix look bad.

Anyway I did a few patterns with the new Fenix and on my system it doesn't look like that at all. The flaring feels smooth and realistic, it is easily controllable. I haven't seen any ballooning. It is another improvement over the already nice last version. I made five landings in a row with around 150 FPM.

Well done Fenix!

Disclaimer: The only type rating for the A320 I have is on A Pilot's Life. 😉

 

Really, he deliberately made the fenix look bad? Hes one of the best guys on youtube and professional , this is absurd pov tbh. 

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Easyjetsimpilot found it OK:

Fenix V2 *PATCH* Release - Even Better FPS, Sounds & CPU Performance Fixed | MSFS 2020 - YouTube

and he really flies the 320 IRL

Edited by jcomm
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2 minutes ago, wiler said:

Really, he deliberately made the fenix look bad? Hes one of the best guys on youtube and professional , this is absurd pov tbh. 

That is what I thought as well until I saw this video.

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Aamir educated NG Driver in his video's comments section and at least NG Driver appears to be aware (either now or always was, who knows) that the flare law is very different in the A330 vs A320 lol.

@fenixsimulations
Worth a mention here - but you demonstrated exactly what FLARE mode is meant to do. It does not put in a pre-defined amount of elevator or nose down. It is dynamic. In this video you approached with 1 degree attitude at 50ft. This snapshot is taken, and then used to work out the nose down input at 30ft. It calculates this based on the delta between snapshot pitch, and a target of -2 degrees attitude, achieved over a time period of 8 seconds. The delta is 3 degrees. Over 8 seconds, that works out to 0.375 degrees/s of nose down input, which is nearly next to nothing. Airbus built it this way so that a flat approach does not create a situation where the nose down input is overpowering or causes the aircraft to land on its nose.

With a 6 degree snapshot pitch, it will be 1 degree/s, so stronger. Not sure how it works in the A330, but I am aware that the FLARE law is different there.

@737NGDriver
Flare law in the A330 basically freezes the trim at 100ft and after that it's kind of a direct law (but with some tailstrike protection build in), so it's quite different from the 320.

With what you say in place, can we assume this will mean once pitch attitude on final is correct we will also see a more common reaction for the flare?
Can you advice of some "quick and dirty" tweak we could do to get a higher pitch on final so that we can do a meaningful test on the flare logic?


@fenixsimulations
 @737NGDriver  At the moment I'd recommend flap full, it has more "representative" pitch, but we're externalising these factors in the next block, so they should be bang on a little later. For now, flap full will probably get you closest to the sort of pitch you should be seeing.

 

Edited by lwt1971
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Len
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I would like to retract my "potato comment".  It was an unusual adverse reaction to the YouTube video, you will see from my history here that I'm not a troll and did not mean to bash the developer.  I understand how much work goes into making these aircraft, for which I spend many hours of enjoyment.  I do own the Fenix but not tried the new version myself.

So let me apologise for my comment.

Edited by sidfadc
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Thomas Derbyshire

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3 minutes ago, wiler said:

Really, he deliberately made the fenix look bad? Hes one of the best guys on youtube and professional , this is absurd pov tbh. 

Best? I don't think so. He actually stated something that is not correct. I wouldn't worship him. There are a lot of  professionals on the net. 

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flight sim addict, airplane owner, CFI

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5 minutes ago, sidfadc said:

I would like to retract my "potato comment".  It was an unusual adverse reaction to the YouTube video, you will from my history here that I'm not a troll and did not mean to bash the developer.  I understand how much work goes into making these aircraft, for which I spend many hours of enjoyment.  I do own the Fenix but not tried the new version myself.

So let me apologise for my comment.

Sorry for using you as an example Tom. Very few of us actually fly the 320, so we all base our opinions around those airline pilots who present what they know. There's no way you could've known Emi was mistaken until others came out and pointed out how and why.

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Take-offs are optional, landings are mandatory.
The only time you have too much fuel is when you're on fire.
To make a small fortune in aviation you must start with a large fortune.

There's nothing less important than the runway behind you and the altitude above you.
It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.

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33 minutes ago, sidfadc said:

I would like to retract my "potato comment".  It was an unusual adverse reaction to the YouTube video, you will see from my history here that I'm not a troll and did not mean to bash the developer.  I understand how much work goes into making these aircraft, for which I spend many hours of enjoyment.  I do own the Fenix but not tried the new version myself.

So let me apologise for my comment.

That's fair.  Respect to you Tom.  The Airbus A320 is a complex aircraft with its flight dynamics law.  I learn something new about it every day. 
I still haven't purchased it yet due to doing a bit of a system / Windows 11 rebuild, but it is first on the list when I am fully up and running again, as I want the A319 later as well.

The amount of time and detail Fenix are putting into this is amazing.  Obviously a top notch development crew and great value as well.

Edited by bobcat999
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Call me Bob or Rob, I don't mind, but I prefer Rob.

I like to trick airline passengers into thinking I have my own swimming pool in my back yard by painting a large blue rectangle on my patio.

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Waiting for V1's stream !

Would like to have a BlackBox 711 too, although Easyjetsimpilot is also very good and credited...

And, BTW, where does FS 2020 store the "exe.xml" file ? 

Edited by jcomm
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Main Simulation Rig:

Ryzen 5600x, 32GB RAM, Nvidia RTX 3060 Ti, 1 TB & 500 GB M.2 nvme drives, Win11.

Lenovo TB310FU 9,5" Tablet for Navigraph and some available external FMCs or AVITABs

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