Are the Add-on Planes working w/o DX-10 under SP-2?

[pastorpilot 0]

The subject asks my questions. I have the box in hand... but I am so hesitant to install it. Will there be add-on problems with the DX-10 preview unchecked if SP-2 is installed.I'm running E6700; 8800GTX, Vista 32 Home Prem.Thanks,Steve

[n4gix 4,947]

>The subject asks my questions. I have the box in hand... but>I am so hesitant to install it. Will there be add-on problems>with the DX-10 preview unchecked if SP-2 is installed.>>I'm running E6700; 8800GTX, Vista 32 Home Prem.Of course they are working. It wouldn't have been released otherwise... ;)Fr. Bill

[bdenley 0]

What is this DX10 preview stuff? I have a DX10 graphics card (8800GTX). Is Acceleration DX10 or not? I haven't seen any DX10 preview button. Where is that? Why is it a "preview"? Phil?Brian

[PhilTaylor 45]

Bill,thanks for the confidence; but I think its fair to subset the add-on universe. and to separate DX9 and DX10.code add-ons ( like FSUIPC ) may require an update. several of them ( FSUIPIC, UTX ) already have them available. this depends on several factors, and I know Pete has added code to FSUIPC to avoid crashes when we update; and I could be wrong here but I think for full and complete operation it might still need an update, he can correct me if I am wrong, but he is one of the best examples to use both for features and his level of support.scenery add-ons come in 2 flavors: 1)those that use only techniques contained in the FSX SDK2)those that use a mix of FSX and FS9 or older techniques the fully FSX compliant, eg use only techniques in the FSX SDK, should be fine. its the one that use a mix of issues that may have a problem. I'll come back to that in a moment.aircraft add-ons come in 3 flavors:1)FSX compliant2)not fully FSX compliant ( usually quick ports from FS9 )2)not fully FS9 compliant ( usually updates from FS8 to FS9 )again the fully FSX compliant ( for sure if generated by the FSX SDK ) again should be fine.2) Stoopy already discovered and fixed one in this class, they shouldnt be too bad.3)these are the ones that are the most problematic. this depends on how warmed over the conversion is.In all cases, this is an alpha and z-test issue for the older alpha transparency techniques. Stoopy has fixed 1, haldir posted how to fix another, and I posted yet a 3rd. These should be easily fixable. I dont believe we at Aces even understood the panel scheme FSDS was doing until this issue was uncovered, because each dev who has a cool thing tends to be a bit vague about how the cool thing ( effect ) is achieved. So we broke something I dont believe we knew people depended on. It certainly wasnt on purpose; and it was likely something we tried to address in the last round of beta feedback so it is completely unfair to blame the beta testers. The more interesting question is, do we need to uncover a 4th technique or do we have all that is needed to fix these aircraft and scenery add-ons.Now, thats all the DX9 path. The DX10 path is only going to work for FSX SDK compliant add-ons; who knows some may work but its really not going to be as good as the DX9 path.

[PhilTaylor 45]

I discussed the whole Preview thing in my blog, please read that and then if you have a follow-on then re-ask.As I have also posted, in one of these threads you need all 3 of:1)Vista2)DX10 hw3)Accel or SP2 ( when its released ).If you dont have all of those, the Preview button doesnt show up.The Preview button is in the Graphics Setting dialog, iirc.

[pastorpilot 0]

Thank you, Phil ... and whoever else may know the answer here ... (Phil has a lot of ground to cover) ...For one who doesn't understand software/gaphics development, I think you answered my question.I have, as you say ... 1)Vista2)DX10 hw3)Accel or SP2 ( when its released ).Therefore if I take the lunge and install Acceleration... 1) All planes developed under the FSX SDK should work fine, scenery included.2) No guarantees for the others, at all. That makes sense.Does SP-2 (without DX-10 option selected) upset the apple cart from how FSX SP-1 responded to the older planes ... or ... should it respond the same EXCEPT when the DX-10 Preview option is selected.In other words, will SP-2 disable a lot of DX-9 addons... or is it only when DX-10 is added to SP-2??I think I would be ready to install the expansion pack if I knew, I could disable DX-10 under SP-2 and know the other stuff would work the same as FSX SP-1.The final question is, can the expansion pack be uninstalled with everything remaining the same as before? I suppose the CFG should be backed up to start with... I doubt if that would return to the same.Thanks, Steve

[PhilTaylor 45]

In DX9 mode, so far it appears to be type 3 aircraft from my list:1)FSX compliant2)not fully FSX compliant ( usually quick ports from FS9 )3)not fully FS9 compliant ( usually updates from FS8 to FS9 )that are the main issue. so far :-).it also seems like a lot of these in of type 2 or type 3 can be fixed pretty easily for DX9 mode without having to use the FSX SDK. what percent this is that need to be fixed, its TBD. and given we already have 3 cases and 3 fixes, it looks very likely there is a path using the old tools that can be used successfully for these. that should make fixing up DX9 mode much simpler for the ones that dont "just work".To get them to work in DX10, they will have to go through the FSX SDK. that may be harder depending on how old they actually are, and what techniques they actually used. the older, the harder.backing up, or making a restore point, is always a good idea.thats about as definitive as I can be until we get more reports and those are sorted through. fair enough?

[toprob 105]

>scenery add-ons come in 2 flavors: >1)those that use only techniques contained in the FSX SDK>2)those that use a mix of FSX and FS9 or older techniques >>the fully FSX compliant, eg use only techniques in the FSX>SDK, should be fine. >>its the one that use a mix of issues that may have a problem.>I'll come back to that in a moment.>Phil, did you mean to elaborate on the scenery issue a bit further? The rest of the post covers aircraft, but never returned to scenery... >The more interesting question is, do we need to uncover a 4th>technique or do we have all that is needed to fix these>aircraft and scenery add-ons.>If you were to pull a 4th rabbit out of the hat, what's the chance that it could be our bog-standard FS2004 GMAX gamepack output using DXT1? I have one project which has both tweaked FS2004-type Rotate-to-user people populating an airshow which shows up only at Easter -- yes, I know that rotate to user and conditional display were never officially supported, but boy, they were useful -- I think that adding 1000 or so 3D folk to my airshow is still some years away, performance-wise, so there's still a place for my simple plane-people.I admit after my experiments I don't hold out much hope for a fix, but I'm continually amazed by how clever people can be. All we need is just one bright idea...

[MM 422]

Phil,You mention three solutions. Two are: (1) Convert textures to 32-bit, and (2) replace Alpha with generic gray texture.Sorry, I cannot find the 3rd solution. Might you please lay it out again. (And, if you might, think about compiling these "fixes" on your blog or over at FSInsider. At least when things settle down.)Thanks,Mike

[PhilTaylor 45]

some form of the FS9 seasonal texture transparency has an issue. its not clear if the "move to 32 bit texture" strategy fixes that or not.someone is going to have to try the GMAX path to verify what works in terms of the transparency for those 2 "unofficial and unsupported" features.

[PhilTaylor 45]

On my blog now, at:http://blogs.msdn.com/ptaylor/archive/2007...content-in.aspx

[FlyingsCool 3]

I just picked up Acceleration today and installed it on my Dell D810 1.86 GHz/2GB/64 MB ATI X300 graphics laptop running Windows XP SP2. Now, this machine is not super useful for FSX as a regular, everday machine as it is just too slow, but it is useful for testing and development, at least to me. I loaded the AFG King Air, and everything seems to be great! All the windows are fine, I didn't see any issues with the external or internal textures, the instruments all seem to work (I didn't do an exhaustive check, but everything I tried worked, including the flaps), the lights all work fine during the day and at night. I took off and made a quick flight by keyboard, and everything seemed to be fine. So I'll give this plane a check of approval for FSX. However, Gerrishes trees do not display correctly on my system. The transparent area is black. I have not yet tried to edit the textures to see if I can bring the transparent area back.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)N15802 KASH '73 Piper Cherokee Challenger 180

[MM 422]

Thanks, Phil.M.

[GaryGB 10]

Hi Toprob:Perhaps others here might be interested in our dialog on this issue as it applies to SP2 ALPHA AND OLDER SCENERY OBJECTS (not just aircraft) in this thread:http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7124{EDIT}: I just spotted this related thread on SP2, DXT1 and scenery also:http://www.fsdeveloper.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7045My own initial shocking discovery is that all of Richard Goldstein's beautiful trees and many of his (SCASM?) custom ground tiles at Emma Field (possibly also all his other FS2Kx GeoRender sceneries?) are respectively showing dark gray or black backgrounds in their bitmaps, and in the case of the ground tiles, they have either lost their transparency or are invisible! :-eek Perhaps we need to start a separate thread here in the AVSIM FSX forum to address "SP2 & alpha in older scenery content" instead of asking in this thread (which admittedly is entitled: "Are the Add-on Planes working w/o DX-10 under SP-2?)" :-roll I hope we might see more folks inquiring into this issue and posting possible solutions to try! :-) GaryGB

[toprob 105]

Yes, scenery does seem to be off-topic here, but I'll stay here for the moment...I really think that we need to get some more feedback on what people are seeing here, as we may be seeing different issues. I've yet to see grey or black backgrounds, but I do see 'blitz' backgrounds, where everything except ground textures are invisible behind. I did wonder if I may have another issue, and have begun a process of checking that I actually have a 'good' install.So what scenery problems are people seeing? I've put a quick link to a screenshot to get things started.http://www.windowlight.co.nz/images/trees.jpg(The trees are legacy FS2004 GMAX gamepack stuff, tweaked to rotate to user. Other transparent textures in this scenery are FSX gamepack output, so work fine.)Godzone Virtual Flight, for 'Real New Zealand' sceneryhttp://www.windowlight.co.nz