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Phantoms

ATC insist on raising my altitude above flightplan

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I have had marginally acceptable results using the simbrief downloader to dl a flight plan and then loading it via the world map. It respects my flight levels, and assigns me the defined runway. Most of the time, it even starts me on my descent around the time I want to.   

I actually find for taxing it's pretty good especially when used with FSITL. It holds and directs the traffic on the taxiways fairly well.

I mean, after the takeoff it won't do an vectors etc, and the entire flight flight is basically a scripted encounter.

From what I have read, the other ATC programs solve some of the problems, but don't check off all the boxes to make it worth spending the money.

Likewise, VATSIM is hit or miss. As Bob said, getting ATC coverage the entire flight when you are on is hit or miss. Events are their own stress level because now you have people with questionable audio quality. Not to mention a mistake on anyone's part can degrade the experience for a lot of people. I am on my headset all day for work, and the level of focus VATSIM requires, as well as wearing the dang headset isn't a good option.

It does sound like they want to at least address ATC with 2024, so I we will see.

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Default ATC or not, no one will ever cross the ocean at FL100


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15 hours ago, Phantoms said:

Is this a airspace issue, a airway issue or just a janky MSFS issue?

Just a janky MSFS issue.

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15 hours ago, Phantoms said:

Is this a airspace issue, a airway issue or just a janky MSFS issue?

ATC is following what is asked in your flight plan.

The waypoint Intersection FANUP has defined an AT_OR_ABOVE flight level constraint of 19000 in Alt1FP:

 

        <ATCWaypoint id="FANUP">
            <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N25° 38' 44.80",W78° 45' 58.99",+010000.00</WorldPosition>
            <Alt1FP>19000</Alt1FP>
            <AltDescFP>AT_OR_ABOVE</AltDescFP>
            <SpeedMaxFP>270</SpeedMaxFP>
            <ArrivalFP>OLAHS3</ArrivalFP>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAORegion>K</ICAORegion>
                <ICAOIdent>FANUP</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>

 

Similarly the waypoint Intersection JEKER has defined an AT_OR_ABOVE flight level constraint of 14000 in Alt1FP:

 

        <ATCWaypoint id="JEKER">
            <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N25° 42' 20.99",W79° 2' 49.77",+010000.00</WorldPosition>
            <Alt1FP>14000</Alt1FP>
            <AltDescFP>AT_OR_ABOVE</AltDescFP>
            <SpeedMaxFP>270</SpeedMaxFP>
            <ArrivalFP>OLAHS3</ArrivalFP>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAORegion>K</ICAORegion>
                <ICAOIdent>JEKER</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>

 

in Flight Plan Definitions (flightsimulator.com) scroll down to Alt1FP and AltDescFP for descriptions of the flight plan items.

 

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25 minutes ago, willy647 said:

Default ATC or not, no one will ever cross the ocean at FL100

i can see you don't fly GA much.


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1 hour ago, willy647 said:

Default ATC or not, no one will ever cross the ocean at FL100

I doubt a light plane on a ferry flight loaded to the gills with extra gas in ferry tanks could get much higher. 

I also saw a video of an old unpressurized recip cargo bird flying from Canada to Greenland (Ice Pilots perhaps?) and nobody was wearing O2 masks, so they were at 10K or lower.

Then there's a variety of old seaplanes...

So yes, it's possible.


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1 hour ago, willy647 said:

Default ATC or not, no one will ever cross the ocean at FL100

Tell Charles Lindbergh that

(I also think he may have used canned spaghetti ATC as VATSIM would have been offline - probably all day in 1927.  How upset must he have been in those temps, lack of sleep,  just waiting for them to log on.)

Edited by ErichB
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16 minutes ago, ErichB said:

Tell Charles Lindbergh that

(I also think he may have used canned spaghetti ATC as VATSIM would have been offline probably all day in 1927.  How upset must he have been in those temps, lack of sleep,  just waiting for them to log on.)

He could have always reverted to Unicomm.😉

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1 hour ago, SteveW said:

ATC is following what is asked in your flight plan.

The waypoint Intersection FANUP has defined an AT_OR_ABOVE flight level constraint of 19000 in Alt1FP:

 


        <ATCWaypoint id="FANUP">
            <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N25° 38' 44.80",W78° 45' 58.99",+010000.00</WorldPosition>
            <Alt1FP>19000</Alt1FP>
            <AltDescFP>AT_OR_ABOVE</AltDescFP>
            <SpeedMaxFP>270</SpeedMaxFP>
            <ArrivalFP>OLAHS3</ArrivalFP>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAORegion>K</ICAORegion>
                <ICAOIdent>FANUP</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>

 

Similarly the waypoint Intersection JEKER has defined an AT_OR_ABOVE flight level constraint of 14000 in Alt1FP:

 


        <ATCWaypoint id="JEKER">
            <ATCWaypointType>Intersection</ATCWaypointType>
            <WorldPosition>N25° 42' 20.99",W79° 2' 49.77",+010000.00</WorldPosition>
            <Alt1FP>14000</Alt1FP>
            <AltDescFP>AT_OR_ABOVE</AltDescFP>
            <SpeedMaxFP>270</SpeedMaxFP>
            <ArrivalFP>OLAHS3</ArrivalFP>
            <ICAO>
                <ICAORegion>K</ICAORegion>
                <ICAOIdent>JEKER</ICAOIdent>
            </ICAO>
        </ATCWaypoint>

 

in Flight Plan Definitions (flightsimulator.com) scroll down to Alt1FP and AltDescFP for descriptions of the flight plan items.

 

Nice answer, that’s all the OP was after. 

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1 hour ago, Bob Scott said:

I doubt a light plane on a ferry flight loaded to the gills with extra gas in ferry tanks could get much higher. 

I also saw a video of an old unpressurized recip cargo bird flying from Canada to Greenland (Ice Pilots perhaps?) and nobody was wearing O2 masks, so they were at 10K or lower.

Then there's a variety of old seaplanes...

So yes, it's possible.

And the OP is talking about flying over the ocean, from the Bahamas to Miami,  so yes it's very possible.


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19 minutes ago, Alvega said:

And the OP is talking about flying over the ocean, from the Bahamas to Miami,  so yes it's very possible.

I flew that in real life a few times, right through the "devils triangle".


 

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4 hours ago, SteveW said:

ATC is following what is asked in your flight plan.

The waypoint Intersection FANUP has defined an AT_OR_ABOVE flight level constraint of 19000 in Alt1FP:

Thank you for pointing this out. I know default ATC is bad but it is not always MSFS's fault!

Hopefully FS2024 will see an overhaul of the ATC but in 30 years of flightsimming I have never seen this done right, not even in addons, at least not automated.

Edited by orchestra_nl
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6 hours ago, SteveW said:

ATC is following what is asked in your flight plan.

The waypoint Intersection FANUP has defined an AT_OR_ABOVE flight level constraint of 19000 in Alt1FP:

Exactly…it’s an annoying bug in MSFS where if the STAR has a waypoint with an altitude above your cruise altitude it will tell you to climb.  I’m actually not sure how that would be handled in the real world, perhaps ATC wouldn’t accept the flightplan?


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Steve W already answered.  But this is a major issue I hope someone can fix.   Sometimes the waypoint altitudes are incorrect or at intrepreted incorrectly by the sim even in Navigraph with newest AIRACs.  

There is a way around it.

What I do is always make sure I edit the flightplan and compare it to what I'm seeing in Navigraph.  This does not always work though.  For instance KTUS to KPHX is a 16000 "cruise"  TUS>WLDKT3>HOTTT>PINNG1 .  but  HOTTT is  22000>25000 feet.  So even though you put in 16000 as a cruise it asks you to climb to 22000 feet.  The only way around this is to not select an arrival to (PHX).  Just go direct then select the Approach say ILS 25L...Then manually add the waypoints.  WLDKT HOTTT PAAAR PUKRE FINAP... ATC will ignore altitude constraints. Then the magenta line is the first approach fix GIPSE.  Then when you put it into you FMC it will be correct and ATC will shut up until just before the final approach fix.  So you have an IFR flight plan but it behaves a little more realistically with in MSFS default ATC constraints. I always make sure my flightplan in MSFS matches my simbrief flight plan *manually* and always double check everything before i hit fly.  Then I usually just program the FMC myself. RTE,  DEP,  ARR, add legs, then check it all over.   I always have issues with simbrief imports leaving out waypoints, creating discontinuities, doubling up waypoints, putting waypoints too close together.  I also like to use flightaware to see exactly what the last jet on that route did and find the route that most closely matches.

Now if only we can get default ATC to give that final approach fix altitude on time.

 

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On 9/11/2023 at 9:45 AM, willy647 said:

Default ATC or not, no one will ever cross the ocean at FL100

Wouldn't FL100 be 100,000 ft? Or are you referring to 10,000ft? If the later from Bahamas to Miami I would think there are several that fly below oxygen required level (not many commercial mind you).

 

On 9/11/2023 at 9:57 AM, SteveW said:

ATC is following what is asked in your flight plan.

The waypoint Intersection FANUP has defined an AT_OR_ABOVE flight level constraint of 19000 in Alt1FP:

Similarly the waypoint Intersection JEKER has defined an AT_OR_ABOVE flight level constraint of 14000 in Alt1FP:

 

Thank you for spotting the cause. This flight plan was made in MSFS World Map flight plan editor with Low Altitude Airways set and a cruising altitude of 10,000ft set. I guess MSFS is a little janky, just a different part of it (perhaps it should of pointed out an error). I now know to save and go through and carefully pay attention to everything in the flight plan that MSFS makes.

 

Edited by Phantoms
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James

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